bacterial (cellular) intelligence shown to be DNA driven (Animals)

by David Turell @, Saturday, December 09, 2017, 15:40 (254 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: And the cells that learn by experience are programmed to do so. I think this discussion has reached an insoluble end point. From the outside, and we are outside, cells that act intelligently can be automatic or actually intelligent, 50/50 chance. I've picked a view and will stick with it based on all the automaticity I see in the cells I've studied.

dhw: I’m happy to leave it at 50/50, balancing your views against those of others who have also studied cells. But I’d like to make just one more point about your answer. You have often said that your God has given us the means to solve problems. ‘Programmed to learn by experience’ can only denote that we and other organisms have been given the means to learn. It doesn’t denote that we and other organisms have been preprogrammed to implement a given solution to each and every given problem. THAT would be automaticity.

DAVID: I'm discssing cellular automaticity, not solving problems by a brain.

dhw: Firstly, as a dualist, you insist that the brain is not the source of thought – and you can’t solve problems without thought. Secondly, solving problems is an obvious way in which to test intelligence, as proven by all the experiments conducted with rats, corvids, other birds, ants etc., which you have illustrated again and again on this forum. (That is why problem-solving experiments on bacteria cannot be ignored.) Thirdly, we are discussing whether cells are intelligent or automatic, and although you have made your choice, I am simply pointing out that “programmed to learn by experience” does not denote being programmed with all the solutions to all the problems – it only denotes being given the means to learn by experience.

I completely accept your statement in bold. Cells can be programmed to learn from experience as in the immunity system. Thus the 3.8 billion year old programming we discuss may work in just this way.

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