Explaining natural wonders (Animals)
> DAVID: You have admitted life is complex, but your statement above glosses over the issue of inventing new biochemistry for the adaptations you say happens as, 'organisms respond inventively to environmental change'. Any advance requires new proteins among millions of possibilities, plus coordinated complexes of old proteins. So far DNA or the whole genome does not seem to contain a way to do that. > > dhw: I have not glossed over it. I have pointed out that nobody knows how the mechanism works. You have merely provided details of what nobody knows. The same objection applies to your claim that your God provided the first cells with a computer programme which over the course of 3.7 billion years has invented new biochemistry, chosen new proteins and coordinated complexes of old proteins. So far nobody has discovered God's computer programme. Nor has anybody sussed out how or indeed why your God personally intervened in order to create all these innovations and natural wonders extant and extinct (when all he wanted to do was produce humans).-And my point persists; not knowing how speciation occurs, it still must be recognized that an advance in complexity involves finding new functional protein molecules. To me this requires a planning mind behind the process, since the search landscape is so huge. Found by chance, no way!
Complete thread:
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2016-03-24, 13:47
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-03-24, 15:24
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2016-03-25, 13:33
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-03-25, 15:28
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2016-03-26, 12:40
- Explaining natural wonders - David Turell, 2016-03-26, 14:37
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2016-03-26, 12:40
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-03-25, 15:28
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2016-03-25, 13:33
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2016-09-15, 13:04
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-09-15, 19:11
- Explaining natural wonders -
BBella,
2016-09-15, 22:58
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-09-16, 00:02
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2016-09-16, 13:50
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-09-16, 14:52
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2016-09-17, 12:50
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-09-18, 23:50
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2016-09-19, 13:22
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-09-19, 15:55
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2016-09-20, 16:38
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-09-20, 19:13
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2016-09-21, 12:56
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-09-21, 19:30
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2016-09-22, 13:00
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-09-22, 20:15
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2016-09-23, 12:32
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-09-23, 15:35
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2016-09-24, 12:15
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-09-24, 15:43
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2016-09-25, 12:41
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-09-25, 15:01
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2016-09-26, 12:35
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-09-26, 15:09
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2016-09-27, 14:45
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-09-27, 16:17
- Explaining natural wonders; addendum -
David Turell,
2016-09-27, 18:57
- Explaining natural wonders; addendum 2 - David Turell, 2016-09-28, 01:52
- Explaining natural wonders; addendum -
dhw,
2016-09-28, 12:52
- Explaining natural wonders; addendum -
David Turell,
2016-09-29, 00:47
- Explaining natural wonders; addendum -
dhw,
2016-09-29, 12:53
- Explaining natural wonders; addendum - David Turell, 2016-09-30, 02:40
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2016-11-22, 12:21
- Explaining natural wonders - David Turell, 2016-11-22, 14:19
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2016-12-04, 12:31
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-12-04, 15:24
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2017-04-25, 10:08
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2017-04-25, 20:04
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2017-04-26, 09:46
- Explaining natural wonders -
Balance_Maintained,
2017-04-26, 14:22
- Explaining natural wonders - David Turell, 2017-04-26, 19:24
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2017-04-26, 18:37
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2017-04-27, 12:42
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2017-04-27, 20:22
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2017-04-28, 17:41
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2017-04-29, 00:48
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2017-05-01, 08:46
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2017-05-01, 18:55
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2017-05-02, 11:40
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2017-05-02, 18:23
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2017-05-03, 12:43
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2017-05-03, 15:09
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2017-05-04, 11:59
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2017-05-05, 01:26
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2017-05-05, 12:33
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2017-05-06, 00:03
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2017-05-06, 10:40
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2017-05-06, 19:48
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2017-05-07, 13:16
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2017-05-07, 15:42
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2017-05-08, 13:46
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2017-05-08, 18:12
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2017-05-09, 12:03
- Explaining natural wonders - David Turell, 2017-05-09, 18:15
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2017-05-09, 12:03
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-05-18, 18:43
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-05-18, 18:58
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-05-19, 13:05
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-05-19, 15:27
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-05-20, 10:30
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-05-20, 16:09
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-05-21, 15:33
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-05-21, 19:16
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-05-22, 13:09
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-05-22, 20:08
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-05-23, 14:11
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-05-24, 00:50
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-05-24, 13:33
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-05-24, 19:14
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-05-25, 13:56
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-05-25, 19:17
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-05-26, 14:04
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-05-26, 22:00
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-05-27, 12:20
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-05-28, 00:28
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence (2) - David Turell, 2017-05-28, 02:47
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-05-28, 15:36
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-05-28, 18:54
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-05-29, 14:07
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-05-29, 15:33
- bacterial intelligence: extremophiles everywhere - David Turell, 2017-05-30, 15:31
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-05-30, 20:05
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-05-31, 01:22
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-05-31, 12:34
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-05-31, 15:55
- bacterial intelligence: prexisting protections - David Turell, 2017-05-31, 20:18
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-01, 11:34
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-01, 22:12
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-02, 20:24
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-03, 01:57
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-03, 10:48
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-03, 18:31
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-04, 13:14
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-04, 19:04
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-05, 13:06
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-05, 14:46
- Explaining natural wonders: before or after? -
dhw,
2017-06-06, 15:05
- Explaining natural wonders: before or after? - David Turell, 2017-06-06, 15:31
- Explaining natural wonders: before or after? -
dhw,
2017-06-06, 15:05
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-05, 14:46
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-05, 13:06
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-04, 19:04
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-04, 13:14
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-03, 18:31
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-03, 10:48
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-03, 01:57
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-02, 20:24
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-05, 17:57
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-06, 15:23
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-06, 17:50
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-07, 14:20
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-07, 18:25
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-08, 12:45
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-08, 16:43
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-09, 19:12
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-09, 22:17
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-10, 12:02
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-10, 19:30
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-11, 17:13
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-11, 18:26
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-12, 12:29
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-12, 16:44
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-13, 11:11
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-13, 17:54
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence - David Turell, 2017-06-13, 23:31
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-14, 19:15
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-15, 01:34
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-15, 12:50
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-15, 19:55
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-16, 12:45
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-16, 20:32
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-17, 12:28
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-17, 19:33
- bacterial intelligence shown to be DNA driven -
David Turell,
2017-10-09, 17:27
- bacterial intelligence shown to be DNA driven -
dhw,
2017-10-10, 14:13
- bacterial intelligence shown to be DNA driven -
David Turell,
2017-10-10, 14:56
- bacterial intelligence shown to be DNA driven -
dhw,
2017-10-11, 13:48
- bacterial intelligence shown to be DNA driven -
David Turell,
2017-10-11, 15:06
- bacterial intelligence shown to be DNA driven -
dhw,
2017-10-12, 14:04
- bacterial intelligence shown to be DNA driven -
David Turell,
2017-10-12, 14:43
- bacterial intelligence shown to be DNA driven -
dhw,
2017-10-13, 11:04
- bacterial intelligence shown to be DNA driven -
David Turell,
2017-10-13, 18:57
- bacterial intelligence using molecular switch - David Turell, 2017-10-13, 21:57
- bacterial intelligence shown to be DNA driven -
dhw,
2017-10-14, 13:10
- bacterial intelligence shown to be DNA driven -
David Turell,
2017-10-14, 15:27
- bacterial intelligence shown to be DNA driven -
dhw,
2017-10-15, 09:05
- bacterial intelligence shown to be DNA driven -
David Turell,
2017-10-15, 15:21
- bacterial intelligence shown to be DNA driven -
dhw,
2017-10-16, 14:35
- bacterial intelligence shown to be DNA driven -
David Turell,
2017-10-16, 15:17
- bacterial intelligence shown to be DNA driven -
David Turell,
2017-10-16, 15:17
- bacterial intelligence shown to be DNA driven -
dhw,
2017-10-16, 14:35
- bacterial intelligence shown to be DNA driven -
David Turell,
2017-10-15, 15:21
- bacterial intelligence shown to be DNA driven -
dhw,
2017-10-15, 09:05
- bacterial intelligence shown to be DNA driven -
David Turell,
2017-10-14, 15:27
- bacterial intelligence shown to be DNA driven -
David Turell,
2017-10-13, 18:57
- bacterial intelligence shown to be DNA driven -
dhw,
2017-10-13, 11:04
- bacterial intelligence shown to be DNA driven -
David Turell,
2017-10-12, 14:43
- bacterial intelligence shown to be DNA driven -
dhw,
2017-10-12, 14:04
- bacterial intelligence shown to be DNA driven -
David Turell,
2017-10-11, 15:06
- bacterial intelligence shown to be DNA driven -
dhw,
2017-10-11, 13:48
- bacterial intelligence shown to be DNA driven -
David Turell,
2017-10-10, 14:56
- bacterial intelligence shown to be DNA driven -
dhw,
2017-10-10, 14:13
- bacterial intelligence shown to be DNA driven -
David Turell,
2017-10-09, 17:27
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-17, 19:33
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-17, 12:28
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-16, 20:32
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-16, 12:45
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-15, 19:55
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-15, 12:50
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-15, 01:34
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-13, 17:54
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-13, 11:11
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-12, 16:44
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-12, 12:29
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-11, 18:26
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-11, 17:13
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-10, 19:30
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-10, 12:02
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-09, 22:17
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-09, 19:12
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-08, 16:43
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-08, 12:45
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-07, 18:25
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-07, 14:20
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-06, 17:50
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-06-06, 15:23
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-06-01, 22:12
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-05-31, 15:55
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-05-31, 12:34
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-05-31, 01:22
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-05-29, 15:33
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-05-29, 14:07
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-05-28, 18:54
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-05-28, 00:28
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-05-27, 12:20
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-05-26, 22:00
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-05-26, 14:04
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-05-25, 19:17
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-05-25, 13:56
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-05-24, 19:14
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-05-24, 13:33
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-05-24, 00:50
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-05-23, 14:11
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-05-22, 20:08
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-05-22, 13:09
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-05-21, 19:16
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-05-21, 15:33
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-05-20, 16:09
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-05-20, 10:30
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-05-19, 15:27
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
dhw,
2017-05-19, 13:05
- Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence -
David Turell,
2017-05-18, 18:58
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2017-05-08, 18:12
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2017-05-08, 13:46
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2017-05-07, 15:42
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2017-05-07, 13:16
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2017-05-06, 19:48
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2017-05-06, 10:40
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2017-05-06, 00:03
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2017-05-05, 12:33
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2017-05-05, 01:26
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2017-05-04, 11:59
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2017-05-03, 15:09
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2017-05-03, 12:43
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2017-05-02, 18:23
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2017-05-02, 11:40
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2017-05-01, 18:55
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2017-05-01, 08:46
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2017-04-29, 00:48
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2017-04-28, 17:41
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2017-04-27, 20:22
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2017-04-27, 12:42
- Explaining natural wonders -
Balance_Maintained,
2017-04-26, 14:22
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2017-04-26, 09:46
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2017-04-25, 20:04
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2017-04-25, 10:08
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-12-04, 15:24
- Explaining natural wonders; addendum -
dhw,
2016-09-29, 12:53
- Explaining natural wonders; addendum -
David Turell,
2016-09-29, 00:47
- Explaining natural wonders; addendum -
David Turell,
2016-09-27, 18:57
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-09-27, 16:17
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2016-09-27, 14:45
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-09-26, 15:09
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2016-09-26, 12:35
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-09-25, 15:01
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2016-09-25, 12:41
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-09-24, 15:43
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2016-09-24, 12:15
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-09-23, 15:35
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2016-09-23, 12:32
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-09-22, 20:15
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2016-09-22, 13:00
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-09-21, 19:30
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2016-09-21, 12:56
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-09-20, 19:13
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2016-09-20, 16:38
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-09-19, 15:55
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2016-09-19, 13:22
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-09-18, 23:50
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2016-09-17, 12:50
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-09-16, 14:52
- Explaining natural wonders -
dhw,
2016-09-16, 13:50
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-09-16, 00:02
- Explaining natural wonders -
BBella,
2016-09-15, 22:58
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-09-15, 19:11
- Explaining natural wonders -
David Turell,
2016-03-24, 15:24