Explaining natural wonders: bacterial intelligence (Animals)

by dhw, Monday, May 22, 2017, 13:09 (2741 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: Bearing in mind that vast numbers will die before bacteria come up with these strategies, are you saying that your God preprogrammed every one of them as an “alternative pathway” to cope with dangers that would arise 3.8 billion years later?
DAVID: Yes, I've seen all of these strategies. You know that bacteria have survived forever. I assume you know that all antibiotics that are now resisted came from antibiotics that have always been present in nature or are human-invented forms originating in the natural form. Bacteria have known how to combat them from the beginning or they wouldn't be here. Since I think God invented life, He gave them these pathways.

The means of combating them must be present as a potential, but that applies to every measure and countermeasure you can think of. However, since billions of bacteria are killed by antibiotics before some of them come up with their different countermeasures, billions of them didn’t know how to combat them. And that is why we can hypothesize that some bacteria might be better at finding solutions than others. Why would that be? Has God preprogrammed or dabbled with Baccies 1, 2 and 3, but not Baccies 4, 5 and 6? Or are 1, 2 and 3 cleverer than 4, 5 and 6?

DAVID: You are again implying the leap from epigenetic changes to speciation.
dhw: Yes, that is the HYPOTHESIS. Epigenetic changes offer us a possible clue. We do not know the extent to which epigenetic change can operate.
DAVID: We have not found epigenetic steps to speciation so far. That is possible, but the gaps in the fossil record imply it does not exist.

No, we haven’t found them. That is why is it is a HYPOTHESIS. If we could find fossils for every single stage of speciation from bacteria to humans (not asking much, are we?) we wouldn’t need to hypothesize. If we could find God’s 3.8-billion-year-old software for every single stage of speciation from bacteria to humans, we wouldn’t need to hypothesize. If God came down from heaven to earth and explained everything to us, we wouldn’t need to hypothesize. Unfortunately for poor old Dawkins and Co, there are no “ifs” that can prove God doesn’t exist, so at least that’s one argument you can’t lose!

DAVID: I am insisting the leap requires advanced conceptualization of future form and a planned coordination of all the new required parts and processes. Only advanced mentation can do this.
dhw: I know you are insisting on the correctness of your own hypothesis that 3.8 billion years ago your God preprogrammed every single innovation, lifestyle and natural wonder in the history of evolution, except when he dabbled in advance of environmental changes, though these may have “initiated” (your word) the organic changes. And furthermore, I know you insist that every single innovation etc. extant and extinct was “related to” (your words) the production of humans. I’m sorry, but I just can’t accept insistence as a substitute for logic.
DAVID: Once again you have talked around the need for future conceptualization and planning to explain the gaps in the fossil record. Isn't that a requirement for species gap advancement? Let's address that issue, before attacking my conclusion.

I have already addressed that issue, but you take no notice. Once again: in my hypothesis there is no future conceptualization and planning. Evolution progresses through the intelligent RESPONSES of organisms to the opportunities (and dangers) presented by changes in the environment. The gaps in the fossil record can be explained by saltations, and a major environmental change (e.g.maybe Cambrian oxygen) may trigger major innovations. You are understandably sceptical that cell communities are capable of such major self-reorganizations. I don’t know if they are or not. It is a HYPOTHESIS which allows for your God as the creator of cellular intelligence as well as possible dabbles, but removes the need for all the convolutions and contradictions of your own hypotheses outlined above.