Problems with this section; for Frank (Agnosticism)

by Frank Paris , Friday, November 20, 2009, 15:29 (5481 days ago) @ dhw

'Your statements about God could scarcely be clearer, and I don't know in what way they point beyond themselves. For a non-religious person, the mythical element is self-evident, but I'd be interested to know in what sense you yourself regard the above statements as "mythical".'-The reality of God is beyond all verbal expression. Mystical experience reveals that. In that sense, any statements about God necessarily have to be pointing beyond themselves. They can barely hint of the reality. If I say, "God is unlimited," those are just words. We can try to imagine an "unlimited extent," but in the first place, we can't really wrap our mind around what the word, "unlimited" points to (the very expression, "wrap our mind around" is a limiting exercise), and in the second place the word, "extent" is mythical because the "extent" the expression talks about isn't spacio-temporal, but something ineffable.-"1) If there is really only one consciousness which is God's, what is the consciousness that stops when the brain dies?"-God's consciousness no longer runs through those channels: in death, the ability of consciousness to run through them comes to an end because the structure enabling the channels deteriorates: there is literally organic disintegration and no longer an organization that enables it: nothing that brings an association to a focus.-"2) You have stated categorically that you are a materialist (e.g. 29 October at 22.54). As I understand materialism, the physical brain is the *source* of consciousness, but this is clearly not so in your theology. In what way is your concept of consciousness materialistic?-I am a materialist in the sense that phenomena that we can publically observe in our universe always has a material substrate. The divine being does not come at us from outside and start pushing us around. The physical brain is simply organized in such a way that consciousness can run through it up from within because the parts composing the whole are focused properly.-"3) Do you believe that my sense of individual identity, which I consider to be inextricably linked to my consciousness, is an illusion?"-It is based on the limited perspective of your past history. And of course I'm not the only one who believes this. It is a common theme in the mystical literature. There's nothing original in this observation.-"what do you think is the source of my individual identity"-The illusions of separateness.-"To follow up BBella's questions about "evil": if all consciousness stems from God, why do you limit the divine promptings to love, compassion and experience of beauty?"-Mystical experience.-'Could not our selfishness, wickedness, aggression etc. also stem from God as the "source of all consciousness"?'-It stems from limitations of that consciousness. God's consciousness is unlimited and hence transcends the limitations of perspective that are the source of "selfishness, wickedness, aggression etc." Enlarge your perspective enough and those "properties" disappear. You should actually know this from your own experience.-"what is the source of our darker side?"-Illusions about our autonomy.-"If the darker side does have a source that lies outside God's infinite consciousness"-That's not the correct way to look at it. It lies from limited perspectives on God's infinite consciousness.