Problems with this section (Agnosticism)

by BBella , Wednesday, November 18, 2009, 19:13 (5266 days ago) @ Frank Paris

[bb]"Before the rise of consciousness in man, wouldn't man pretty much have been in the animal instinct mode?"
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> First of all, I think it is virtually certain that consciousness arose in the lineage of human beings long before they were recognizably human. Additionally, it was undoubtedly in Neanderthals, who probably arose alongside the human lineage, not as an offshoot of it.
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> So a more properly phrased question would be: "Before the rise of consciousness (period!), wouldn't animals pretty much have been in the animal instinct mode?" Phrased thus properly, you can see that this is just a tautology.
> -Yes, that is more clear. I see what you are saying here.->[bb] "it seems to me evil would have came about when man became conscious enough to call or name something evil that would have been considered animal instinct before his growth in consciousness."
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>[FP] You're assuming that consciousness requires verbalization. I think animals can have a sense of right and wrong as well as a sense of beauty without having the ability to formulate grammars for their vocalizations. Various animal calls and "body language" can express moral and aesthetic feelings.
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> To address the point I think you're making without all this hair splitting, without a sense of good and evil, the only thing an animal can act on is unreflective instinct, uncolored by any other conscious awareness of "values." But isn't that true almost by definition?-I agree that animals might possibly have a "sense" that might include, for some, right, wrong, beauty, etc. But the word "evil" always brings up a whole can of worms for me I think. I also see what you are saying about right and wrong and not needing verbalization to know or express right from wrong. But the word 'evil' leaves a religiously satanic idea to it that I'm pretty sure animals do not have and people probably didn't have before verbalization. Is this how you see it?-bb