Problems with this section (Agnosticism)

by David Turell , Sunday, October 25, 2009, 01:24 (5507 days ago) @ David Turell

The physical world "goes all the way down" to the divine, or the physical world arises out of the divine, is "made out of" the divine. Science examines what "oozes" out of the divine. It's all one continuous process.-I need to understand what you mean by 'divine'
 
> This is akin to what the mystics have realized since time immemorial: All is One.-Certainly true, for me as I look at the universe and its inhabitants.
> > 
> > The above quotation goes on: "...scientists examine the physical world, and therefore scientists will one day discover the truth, and the truth is that there is nothing but the physical world. The perfect circle." True enough, but the physical world is "made out of" the divine. It is a perfect circle.-I'm still confused by the word 'divine' as you use it.
> > 
> > He quotes Dawkins: "An atheist in this sense of philosophical naturalist is someone who believes there is nothing beyond the natural physical world, no supernatural creative intelligence lurking behind the observable universe, no soul that outlasts the body, and no miracles." Amazing how close Dawkins' atheism is to process theology, yet process theology is anything but atheism. The process theologian can accept everything in that quotation, yet still find the divine in all of it.-I'm still confused
> > 
> > Dawkins goes on to say that the atheist "acknowledges that there are things we do not understand, and expresses the hope that one day we will be able to prove that their source is physical." Doing so will not affect the process theologian's faith in the least. Once again, the protagonists on both sides assume a traditional Christian idea of the divine and get wrapped up in specious disagreements. Christians and atheists both argue from the same presuppositions, which have nothing to do with reality. For this reason, their arguments don't interest me.-Nor me. I am a panentheist. Many of your statements sound like my thinking, but I think there is a divine universal intelligence which created this universe and exists both within and without this universe.-> > 
> > Then the section on Evolution starts. But that's the subject for another post. I'll just say this: like Dawkins and every other person who truly understands how evolution works, I am opposed to "Intelligent Design" as the term in used in the literature and in politics. This is because that understanding of "Intelligent Design" implies self-conscious, divine intervention that contravenes the laws of nature: periodically working miracles to move things forward. In both my view and Dawkins, that's never necessary, and there is no compelling reason why things have to move forward. It just so happens that sometimes they do move forward, simply because there's room in eco-space for that to happen strictly by chance. So the natural laws are "smart enough" on their own. But on my view, the natural laws are grounded in the divine nature. Everything is "made out of" God-stuff, and so it is not theologically surprising that there is "room" in nature for wonderful creatures to arise, strictly by chance.-What then is 'God-stuff'? Do you mean it is natural and material? I need more description from you. I'm delighted Matt invited you on board, and welcome, Frank Paris. I'm sure I have someone else to disagree with in the friendliest of fashions. )