Problems with this section (Agnosticism)

by dhw, Sunday, November 15, 2009, 08:18 (5486 days ago) @ Frank Paris

FRANK: God's relationship with genetic codes on this planet is extremely abstract: his fundamentals were created with the potential to create the genetic codes on Earth, and who knows how many other perfectly working but entirely different genetic codes on other planets? This is simply not an interesting theological question, and I don't know why you seem to be so hung up on it.-Then let me spell it out for you. My interest is not in what God may or may not have done in other universes, but in his nature and in our human relations with him. The conventional view of him is that he is the creator of life on Earth, and this, as you well know, leads to major theological headaches concerning the origin of evil and suffering. How does one reconcile all the pain with a God who, as you say in your reply to David, "has love and infinite concern for the welfare of individuals in the universe."? Your own solution to this theological problem is that life on Earth (the only kind we know anything about) came into being by accident, which means God was not responsible and has no control. I am questioning this thesis.-We come back, then, to God's powers. On 3 November at 16.31, you wrote, on the subject of genetic codes: "Those are far beyond the conscious ability of God to create, given the complete lack of control that God has over his fundamental particles once he "cuts them loose"." That was why I referred, disbelievingly, to "your faith that chance can achieve what God can't." You responded: "Doesn't, or chose not to in our universe, would be better ways to put it." The shift from "far beyond God's conscious ability" to God's choice represents a divine somersault. He would not have had the choice if he had not had the ability. -Now, as opposed to his being incapable, you say it wasn't necessary for God to use his ability in our universe because the fundamentals were "set up" to create the codes on their own. (To my knowledge, no-one on this forum has ever suggested that God performed miracles against the physical laws of Nature. If genetic codes can come into being naturally, why should God have to go against Nature to produce them? Some past contributors may, however, have said that God himself created the laws of Nature.) You believe that God's purpose is to see reflections of his own consciousness in the universe, which leaves us with the following situation: we humans are potentially just such reflections, and we are here because in order to achieve his purpose he "set up" his particles to create the codes needed to get us here. How, then, can this be construed as life and the codes for evolution coming about "by accident"? -It seems to me that in order to accommodate the vision of an all-loving God, your theology requires just as many intellectual contortions as that of the conventional Creator model. But once again let me stress that I'm not questioning your faith. You are absolutely right when you say: "I think the only question for you and me is whether my theology is coherent and consistent." (In your post to David, you add "intellectually satisfying".) I hope the above will help you to understand why it's so difficult for me to find consistency and coherence in some of your thinking. I also hope such discussions are not too frustrating for you.