Problems with this section (Agnosticism)

by Frank Paris , Tuesday, November 03, 2009, 15:28 (5498 days ago) @ George Jelliss

Sorry for waiting so long to reply to your post, but I've been extremely busy with issues from "real life."-"If the string is made of anything I imagine it is made of some sort of fluctuation in the void, a sort of vibrating nothingness."-A "a vibrating nothingness"??? If something is vibrating, it isn't nothing. You're just applying the word, "nothing," to something you don't understand. Whatever is vibrating is "there." It may be pretty "low level," pretty far "down there," but it is there. Scientists who talk like this aren't talking as scientists, because science is supposed to be logical and coherent, and it isn't logical or coherent to be talking about "nothingness vibrating." You can only talk about something vibrating, however low level its existence might be.-"There is no evidence of consciousness existing anywhere but in evolved beings of sufficient complexity."-In talking about "evidence," I think you're talking about the kind of public evidence available for peer review, by examining the physical world with various scientific instruments, including the human senses. But the origin of religious belief is elsewhere. Fundamentally, religious beliefs are based on internal experiences that are private to each individual. Therefore your above observation is totally irrelevant to the person with faith, and I don't even know why you'd bother making that observation. It has nothing to do with the conversation.-(It is immaterial that scientific instruments can detect neuronal impulses that are associated with internal experiences. The experiences themselves are not the same as the scientific detection of the neuronal impulses. The totality of neuronal impulses giving rise to experiences of mystical union will be puny compared to the experiences themselves, no matter how complex those impulses are.)-So you really aren't addressing the issue, probably because you (undoubtedly incorrectly) believe you don't want to talk about anything that isn't subject to scientific scrutiny. However, making statements like "vibrating nothingness" gives the lie to that belief.-"But you are welcome to my image of the God that Hums the universe into existence."-That's your analogy, not mine. excuse me if I decline your invitation and stick with my own formulations.-"but for me it is just an imaginative fiction."-I'm not interested in it, either. So please don't imply that that's what I'm saying.-The tone of your original post to me was facetious. Then suddenly you seem to be getting serious, and seriously going on the attack. At that point, I'm forced to take what you say seriously, so that you don't mistakingly think that I'm not replying because I'm somehow befuddled by your more serious observations.