Purpose and design (Evolution)

by David Turell @, Friday, April 14, 2017, 15:42 (1046 days ago) @ dhw

dhw:I question your claim that the production of humans was his only goal and everything else was related to that. If your God created the wonders for humans to enjoy, why create wonders that go extinct before humans arrive? I think Tony’s point was that he created them for his own delight (he talked of God’s love for his creations), which is closer to my hypothesis than to yours, but I hope Tony will explain his own views.

I hope Tony responds, but God uses evolution. Prior natures wonders had to appear if there was evolution. The wonders are a natural part of the bush of life.

DAVID: I presume God controls evolution and its processes and knows the outcome of processes He started. After all He created the Big Bang.

dhw: And with my theist’s hat on, I am questioning your presumption of prior knowledge, and have suggested the concept of deliberately engineered unpredictability. (Free will would illustrate the same principle - unless you believe your God has made us variants of the Stepford wives).

If God can create the universe, a special planet for us, and create life, he knows where his processes are going and what they will produce

DAVID: I have looked at delay as a possibility. How does one reach conclusions without a complete analysis of every aspect of history?

dhw: Precisely. And yet after your analysis of every aspect of history, you insist on your conclusion that God’s only purpose was to produce humans, and everything else was related to that. Your concept of “delay” depends entirely on there being a fixed purpose, and you have only offered it because…as I wrote last time: "you cannot make up your mind whether he was or was not in control of the ever changing environment. If he was in control, and if his sole purpose was to create humans, he delayed and you don’t know why. If he wasn’t in control, his powers were limited, which conflicts with your belief that he could have created humans without difficulty."

All explained with this previous quote from me:

DAVID: If God set up evolutionary processes that led to desired goals a passage of time is required. That cannot be viewed as a delay, unless you feel God can instantly create anything. I don't. He uses evolutionary processes.

dhw: We both agree that that if God exists he used evolutionary processes! And of course evolution requires time. But this does not solve your dilemma as summarized above. That will only disappear if you abandon one or both of your two basic premises (humans as the only goal, and every other life form, lifestyle and natural wonder related to that one goal).

Once again the dilemma is in your mind, not mine. The delay discussion has been an analysis of possibilities, now settled for me.

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