Purpose and design (Evolution)

by dhw, Tuesday, April 11, 2017, 11:53 (2781 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: Then let me stick rigidly to your terminology and say I prefer any one of those three to the concept of a God who designed every other life form and natural wonder so that it would take a long time for him to produce the only life form he actually wanted to produce,
DAVID: Parsing this part of your statement: "designed every other life form and natural wonder so that it would take a long time" seems to mean He stopped and played with designs to temporize until He finally got to designing humans. Not my view. I remind you I always point out the evidence of God preferring evolution of all goals: universe, earth, and life. He used an evolutionary process to produce us as His standard operating procedure (SOP) approach.

Since we both believe evolution happened, you do not need to remind me that if God exists he used an evolutionary method. You wrote that God designed all the natural wonders in order to provide energy “so evolution can take a long time to reach the end point.” By “end point” you mean humans, and by “evolution” you mean the process God used to produce humans. Therefore your statement can only mean that God designed all the natural wonders to provide energy so that his process could take a long time to produce humans. Please tell me what else it could mean.

dhw: ...and which he could have produced without any difficulty. Since you have agreed that there can be no “clear indisputable answer” and have withdrawn Saturday’s decisive conclusion, do please tell us which of these four hypotheses you now consider most likely.
DAVID: Of course here is no indisputable answer. It is possible He could have gone directly to creating humans, He might be limited or evolutionary processes are His preference. He is allowed to have preferences, if he wishes. And your theories are possible answers, but not ones I prefer, as explained.

None of my hypotheses suggest that he could have gone directly to creating humans. They are all explanations of the history as we know it, not speculations as to what your God might have done differently. Let me summarize the current position. We both believe evolution happened. If God exists, clearly that was his chosen method. It is a fact that humans came comparatively late on the scene, and it is a fact that vast numbers of life forms, lifestyles and natural wonders have come and gone. You have created an anomaly by claiming that God’s sole purpose all along was to produce humans, and yet he specially designed “everything else” before he produced the one thing he wanted to produce. The question is why. You offered the theory that he was limited, but then you rejected it. Your next theory appears to be that he wanted it to take a comparatively long time, and he is allowed to have his preferences, as of course are we. Current theistic options:
1 God (limited version) wanted to produce a being resembling himself but didn’t know how to do it and so he experimented.
2 God designed lots of life forms etc., and hit on the idea of humans later on.
3 God devised a mechanism enabling organisms to do their own free, autonomous inventing, but he may have occasionally dabbled.
4 God’s sole aim was to produce humans, and he knew how to do it but chose to design all the other organisms, lifestyles and natural wonders because he wanted to take a long time over achieving his sole purpose.
Please tell us which of these you prefer, or please offer us another explanation.