particles and connections (General)

by dhw, Thursday, February 16, 2017, 09:08 (2836 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: For me, a conclusion either way demands too much fiction in place of evidence, and so I see myself as much more evidence based than you.
DAVID: The fact that humans are here against all probability, which I accept as FACT, is evidence enough to declare we are God's purpose. That models all of my thinking.

If God is in full control, as you always maintain, then everything that is/was here is/was his purpose. The fact that humans have a uniquely enhanced consciousness certainly makes them special (perhaps they were the result of a divine dabble), but what models – and in my view muddles – all your thinking is your view that your God geared every single species, lifestyle and natural wonder extant and extinct throughout the history of evolution to their production (via the nebulous balance of nature, which simply means life goes on). And that hypothesis is modelled (muddled) by your personal image of your God, who knew exactly what he was doing right from the start and always remains in tight control. See below for more of the features you impose on your God.

DAVID: Your vision of God is not limited. I try to limit mine for the simple reason that we cannot fully understand His person.
dhw: You wrote: “Your humanizing approach limits your vision of what actual capacities a creator God might have.” Now you tell me my vision is not limited! So how does my humanizing approach limit my vision of his capacities without limiting my vision of his capacities?
DAVID: What I meant by 'not limited' is that you allow your romantic mind to wonder all over the place in regard to your theistic-sort-of views.

Ah well, I am limited in my vision and I am not limited in my vision. I am certainly not limited to the image you have created of a tough love God who is always in total control but could only find one way to create life, wants a relationship with us but hides from us and has nothing in common with us, does not contain one “smidgen” of evil and yet is creator of all that is, and watches us with interest but definitely did not create us in order to watch us with interest.

dhw: You have suggested that God HAD to make the world the way he did, which emphatically limits his powers. Since we “cannot fully understand His person “ (though he’s not a person, and according to you we can’t understand him at all), I don’t know why you want to impose any limits on him.
DAVID: Because the Earth He created is a dangerous place. It seems to be true that He could not do it any other way.

It seems to you to be true, because you have now decided that although your God created the whole universe and is always in tight control, his powers are limited.

dhw: And being forced to do it one way hardly endows him with the full control you always ascribe to him, but then you seem to pick and choose his attributes as the wind blows.
DAVID: As the evidence takes me!

The evidence takes you in different directions all at the same time, as listed above.