particles and connections (General)

by dhw, Saturday, February 11, 2017, 13:01 (372 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID (to BBELLA): I agree with you. God is everything in your sense, but He is also consciousness and is closely related to everything conscious. I agree He is not a person in the human sense. All that IS is God's creation and a part of Him.
dhw: I don’t think any of us seriously believe that God is a person – though if he is consciousness, his non-humanity certainly does not automatically mean that he is not and never was conscious of things that humans are conscious of, including attributes such as love, compassion, boredom, self-interest etc. “Closely related” is an odd phrase which could do with a bit more elaboration.
DAVID: God is conscious of everything we are conscious of and much more.

Presumably, then, before he created all the nice things and all the nasty things that you and I are conscious of, he knew exactly what was nice and what was nasty, and since - being the first cause - he created everything out of himself, it is not illogical to suppose that he himself is a mixture of nice and nasty. But I suspect you would rather not speculate on the possible implications of your God having created the nasty, and the nasty being "a part of him", and him being conscious of his nasty part.

DAVID: Of course conscious beings are more related than conscious beings and unconscious objects.

“Related” in what way? Do you mean similar? With more in common? Careful! Next thing you’ll be saying that the more conscious the being is, the more he has in common with your God.

dhw: David, you identify yourself as a panentheist, the essence of which is that God is “within and without” ALL THAT IS. That is the concept I have been questioning in these exchanges. Your reply to me is:
DAVID: I would think He operates inside the universe adjusting its mechanics at a quantum level, which is where I think He is. I firmly believe He is hidden inside the quantum level of reality.

dhw: This, I must confess, leaves me floundering. If God is a universal consciousness, then either he is present at all levels of reality or he’s not. If he’s not, then how can he be within and without All THAT IS (which you say is a part of him)?
DAVID: The universe has two or perhaps more levels of reality. The quantum level contains God from which He interacts with the other layers and controls them. He created them from Himself.

How do you interact with part of yourself and yet not be present? (“All that IS is God’s creation and a part of him.”) Do you mean he operates by some kind of psychokinetic remote control on the parts of him that are outside his hiding place? That is hardly “interaction”. Besides, if we disregard the somewhat misleading term “virtual” as in virtual particles, are you now saying that the quantum world is immaterial? I apologize for the interrogation, but as I said, I am floundering and this is the only way I can de-flounder myself!

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