particles and connections (General)

by David Turell @, Sunday, February 12, 2017, 15:34 (371 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: What you consider nasty God knew when He created. Plate tectonics make quakes sand tsunamis, but are required for life in Earth. Viruses advance evolution. He gave us big brains to solve the problems.

dhw: Just to clarify, then: God set out with the purpose of creating humans, but he couldn’t do it without creating weapons of mass destruction or without the millions of species, lifestyles and natural wonders extant and extinct whose purpose was to keep life going for the sake of humans. And his purpose in creating humans was to get them to solve problems, but we shouldn’t ask why, and he wants a relationship with us, but we shouldn’t ask what sort of relationship is possible if he and we have nothing in common and he hides himself in the quantum world.

Of course we can discuss how we relate to God, and wonder how He relates to us. You are taking my approach to a silly extreme, which is fair enough in any debate. Your 'weapons of mass destruction' are Earth's requirements for life. It suggests God could not make the Earth in any other way. Perhaps He has limits. Your humanizing approach limits you vision of what actual capacities a creator God might have, Wec can only work with what we actually know of our reality.

dhw: I was actually asking what you meant by “related”, because as I have said above, I don’t know what sort of relationship we can have with a God to whom we must not attribute any human qualities. In what way are we “closer” if we can’t get anywhere near him (he’s hidden) or near understanding him (no human attributes)? And in any case shouldn’t a relationship be two-way?

You are asking the same questions I ask. But in thinking about it, I understand the limits in understanding God. Do you?

DAVID’s comment: The entire article needs to be read, and even then you will be confused. It can only be understood if one presumes the quantum connections and even particles may be on the other side of a semipermeable wall separating us from the quantum realm. In that way they can be closely connected, but there, not 'here'. God resides at the quantum level of reality, in my view. Space time is made from and based on that level.

dhw: Much as I appreciate the trouble you have taken to edit this article, it’s a pity you didn’t put your comment at the beginning! Of course I am still confused. So how does that help me? Even the scientists are confused. All they know is that these particles do not conform to their expectations of space and time, cause and effect, and they don’t understand it. What is now even more confusing is that I always imagined your God was an expert in making matter actually conform to the laws of space and time, and cause and effect, with his fine tuning of the universe and his brilliantly cohesive design of life and evolution, but apparently you think the weird behaviour of particles is a better guide to how he works. I did ask if you thought your God used psychokinesis to “control” the bits of himself that are separated-but-not-separated from himself – bearing in mind that he is immaterial and the matter he manipulates is material – and if you thought the quantum world was immaterial. Musser doesn’t answer these questions either.

The answers you seek are not present. That was the point of presenting Musser. Psychokinesis is wooly thinking. My guess is still God uses quantum mechanics as the basis of reality. How? I don't know because I don't understand quantum mechanics an more than Feynman did. BUT quantum mechanics IS the base.

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