Dualism (Identity)

by dhw, Thursday, March 26, 2015, 19:10 (3529 days ago) @ Balance_Maintained

TONY: I'm not the judge, but I would assume that anyone that removed the pagan teachings from their doctrine (i.e. Heaven/Hell afterlife, trinitarian godhead, and other such stuff) and spent some time studying the bible as it is, would quickly realize what the intent was. 
Dhw: What do you mean by “the bible as it is”? There are different translations and different interpretations of the words. You ARE judging: you are telling us that your version is right and other people's is wrong. Is the St James' version of the verse in Luke the work of Satan, then? -TONY: Even in the many, many different translations there are numerous common elements. When those elements are understood as a cohesive whole instead of people trying to cherry pick commas to prove an otherwise scriptural doctrine, the meaning and intent is crystal clear. -Of course there are many common elements. The selection committees saw to that. And the main common element is that there is only one God - the Jewish God of the OT and the Christian God of the NT. But there are many controversial elements on which you and other biblical scholars often vehemently disagree, and in those individual cases the meaning and intent are obviously not crystal clear. You cannot hide from the details by pleading for generality. We ourselves have argued over blood, mixed-faith marriages, justification for war, heaven and hell. You have now attributed near-death experience of a conscious spirit to the work of Satan, and have offered biblical quotes in support of your argument. Among the quotes was Psalm 146, which appeared to contradict your belief in a memory stick containing all the information of the dead person. I also quoted the Bible as regards Jesus's neighbour on the cross, and it was you who quibbled over the comma and now refuse to tell me if this “crystal clear” version of God's word is the work of Satan. I cited the not insignificant example of Jesus, who apparently died but appeared as himself to the disciples. You have never responded to this. You go on to cite more references in support of your interpretation, and most of them do offer your vision of a paradise on earth for those who obey God. However, I have offered you Luke 16. 19-31 in which Jesus himself tells a story involving dead spirits talking from heaven and hell (which you say doesn't exist); there are more such direct examples in Matthew 17, 1-5; 1 Samuel 28, 14ff; Revelations 6, 9-10, all gleaned from a Christian website emphatically opposed to your beliefs (though I was not impressed by some of their arguments. That's the trouble - interpretation is all so subjective). -I am not taking sides, even on the issue of NDEs. I am challenging what seem to me to be suspect arguments. You say that if I ignore “the great majority of the bible in order to interpret one line the way you want, then you are not really being honest.” If I draw your attention to biblical passages or events or interpretations that appear to contradict your very specific beliefs, bearing in mind your claim that every word is inspired by God, I don't know why this should be a sign of dishonesty on my part. If you cannot find a convincing explanation, then simply say so. I greatly respect your opinions and your faith, but you say: “I am telling you what is in the bible. Any version you pick up, when taken as a whole, will tell you the same thing.” You cannot take the Bible “as a whole” when you are dealing with individual issues. The Bible contains many statements about these issues, and if you maintain they are all the absolute truth, either you can sort out the discrepancies, or there has to be a flaw in your beliefs.