Dualism (Identity)

by dhw, Saturday, March 21, 2015, 19:20 (3534 days ago) @ Balance_Maintained

TONY: God Says: The dead are conscious of nothing. 
If satan convinces someone of ANYTHING other than that, he has made god a liar.-David asked for quotations, and you offered Ecc 9:5,6,10 Psalms 146:3,4, Psalm 115:7.
I don't even know if God exists, and I certainly don't think any human can tell us with authority “God says...”. Your post takes us back to the old problem of authorship. My Oxford Companion to the Bible says of Ecclesiastes: “How this book found a place in the Hebrew canon remains a puzzle.” Well, some fallible human put it there, just as some fallible human decided the dead are conscious of nothing. (I'd better make the usual remark that I don't have a clue - I can only pick on points raised here.) The unknown author (David?) of the Psalms does say that human thoughts perish, but then he obviously didn't know that our thoughts survive in the backup you keep telling us about, so that doesn't count. Psalm 115, 7 deals with idols, so you've got the reference wrong there. A quick google reveals Luke 16, 19-31 for a parable in which the dead talk to the dead (as well as mentioning hell and, presumably by extension, heaven). Was this Mr. Satan putting a wacky idea into Jesus's head (or into Luke's, since he's our reporter)? Then there's Jesus himself who dies and comes to life again, and who also tells his crucified neighbour, “Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.” Not much of a promise if the guy isn't even going to know he's there.
 
DHW: ... Ultimately, what “matters” in my view is (a) what seems right to you, and (b) that what seems right to you does no harm to others and, preferably, actively benefits you and others. I would like to think that is the case with all the nice folk on this forum!
TONY: And believe it or not, to a large extent the bible actually largely AGREES WITH YOU... -Yes, it's a basic tenet in most religions and in humanism and in any half decent society: do as you would be done by.
 
TONY: Unfortunately, what you seem to fail to see is that these pagan holidays and traditions were meant to honor other gods. Even praying to the statue of Mary is bowing before a false idol, because Mary is NOT god. So, what you see as innocent harmless fun, is not innocent.-I never raised this subject, never commented, don't know why you raised it, and can't see its relevance to consciousness and the “spirit” and a possible afterlife.
 
DAVID: But if it [the NDE]changes atheists into believers, what does Satan gain?
TONY: ...if you believe but continue to do what is wrong, what virtue is there in your belief. Faith without works is dead. (James 2:14-26)-Who is talking about doing wrong? Is my sweet Mrs X, who loves God, Jesus and her neighbours, and never said boo to a goose, doing wrong because she hopes to go to heaven when she dies? I don't get the impression that Eben Alexander is now seeking to preach God and serve the Devil either.