near to death episodes: latest study (Endings)

by David Turell , Saturday, November 04, 2017, 15:20 (2574 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: The 'soon become undetectable' is 4-20 seconds. Please accept that short time. The cortex is NO LONGER functional. The nonfunctioning cells die in 4-6 minutes if no resuscitation.

dhw: “No longer functional” is not the same as “dead”. You keep emphasizing function and the short time before the cells die. I keep emphasizing that the cortex of these patients does NOT die, and function is not necessarily confined to the outward signs (reflexes etc.).

Function is also represented by the flat EEG, for which you have no answer. Medical science at this time states a flat line means no function. You suggestion is a possibility for which there is no current evidence.

dhw:I used coma patients as an example of no outward signs and no communication and yet the patient is aware. If the cortex cells are NOT dead (and all these NDE patients have been resuscitated before the cells could die), and if patients are aware of events happening around them, this can just as easily be considered evidence that the cells are the source of consciousness as that there is a “soul” which exists independently of the cortex.

These are locked-in patients. They have an active EEG. These are not patients during a resuscitation with a flat EEG. Doctors have a problem trying to determine the patients' degree of awareness. They do not fit your theorizing.

dhw: The evidence for the separate “soul” would only be there (a) if the cortex had actually died, and (b) if the patients could describe events outside the operating theatre.

Unfortunately if the cortex is dead, the patient is by definition brain-dead. All one can do to benefit the situation is turn off life support to stop a living dead situation. Unfortunately, life support can continue keeping the body alive for years, not a good outcome from an emotional and monetary viewpoint.

dhw:I note you have ignored the following:

dhw: In your earlier post you wrote: “Could there be deeper levels of brain activity to support consciousness? Some strange deeper EEG spikes have been seen sporadically, but are poorly understood.” And I commented: Perhaps when we understand them better, we shall find that the cortex, our “thinking organ”, is still absorbing information.

I presented that information to be complete. Neurons make EEG activity. Most of the mass of the brain beneath the cortex is fat insulating a mass of fiber connections. Neurons are present in the cerebellum which coordinates various activities, the olfactory bulb for odors, the hippocampus which it is thought coordinates memory, etc. None of these are considered a part of awareness. The spikes may come from one of those areas. Your comment above does not fit any of the facts we have about the brain. If the EEG is flat the cortex is not working. You keep trying to find some exception to that. My training in the subject is 40-50 years older than Parnia and his current research, and he is writing the same facts I know. Nothing has changed. While you struggle to poke holes.

Resuscitation research started in 1955 at the hospital where I was training. I've had courses in it and experience. Nothing has changed in all that time regarding medial teaching about the cortex and EEG's. This is why books have appeared by MD's (many reviewed in my first book) wondering why consciousness appears to survive a nonfunctional cortex. We have full knowledge of cortical function in a reversed way: cortically damaged patients lose part of their mental/conscious capacities. They can not conceptualized normally. Yes, they have consciousness, but their IQ is reduced.