near to death episodes: latest study (Endings)

by dhw, Friday, November 03, 2017, 13:59 (2575 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: I'll repeat Parnia:
http://bigthink.com/philip-perry/after-death-youre-aware-that-youve-died-scientists-cla...

This is not the article you posted on 23 October, and the new one contains information that was not in the first one, which was: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/mind-works-after-death-consciousness-sam-parn...

You asked me to reread it, and on 25 October I wrote: "I can’t get the whole article, so I am relying on what you posted. The only experiences recounted in the article are of events taking place in the presence of the patient, and the article is absolutely explicit that during these few minutes the brain is ACTIVE." You told me: “I gave you the entire article”.
My complaint was that the original article contained no evidence for dualism. However, even the new article confines itself to events happening around the patient, and the fact that patients cannot communicate or control their bodies does not mean they are unconscious. The new article states: “Brain waves from the cerebral cortex soon become undetectable. Even so, it can take hours for our thinking organ to fully shut down.” In your earlier post you wrote: “Could there be deeper levels of brain activity to support consciousness? Some strange deeper EEG spikes have been seen sporadically, but are poorly understood.” Perhaps when we understand them better, we shall find that the cortex, our “thinking organ”, is still absorbing information.

DAVID’S comment: For me case closed. Until you get full cardiac function there is coma. Yet patients report experiences. All resuscitation does is limit cell death. Your comment about learning of unknown facts is a stronger example I admit.

As you have said, some coma patients who have recovered even years later report that they were fully aware of events going on around them. Once again: There is no reason to assume that the inability to communicate and to control the body after cardiac arrest or reduced function means that the still living cortex is unable to perceive and think. Awareness of events within the patient’s area of perception will therefore only provide evidence for dualism if it can be proved that the cortex is incapable of awareness and thought under the conditions described.