near to death episodes: latest study (Endings)

by dhw, Sunday, October 29, 2017, 13:22 (2583 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: The area of discussion must remain the human cortex. The time limits I've given are related to postmortem examination of brains which did not survive resuscitation and showed very extensive damage to the cortex, which is very sensitive to oxygen supply. Note, heart stops, unconsciousness in 20 seconds or less. To the best of our knowledge the cortex is where consciousness is conducted.

dhw: But the researchers claim that the patients must have been conscious for a few minutes after what they regarded as clinical death. If the cortex continues to function for 4-6 minutes and is where “consciousness is conducted”, and patients register information for 4-6 minutes, and the information relates to events that occur during the 4-6 minutes after clinical death, the implication is that consciousness does NOT end after 20 seconds or less, and that the cortex is the source of consciousness. Only when the cortex ceases to function, and the patient undergoes experiences that can later be authenticated can we say that we have evidence of dualism.

DAVID: Sorry you are confused. The cortex stops functioning within 20 seconds, not 4-6 minutes. From my original entry:
"Dr Sam Parnia said: “Technically, that's how you get the time of death – it's all based on the moment when the heart stops.
“'Once that happens, blood no longer circulates to the brain, which means brain function halts almost instantaneously.
“'You lose all your brain stem reflexes – your gag reflex, your pupil reflex, all that is gone.'”

He also wrote: "They saw activity patterns which are linked to a “hyper-alerted state” in the brief period after clinical death.” (My bold)

Clearly there is a problem with what he describes as the technical time of death. Why should it be the stoppage of the heart? But I am indeed confused. This was your further explanation:
DAVID: To explain further the brain death I'm describing after 4-6 minutes (15 minutes in very young children) is the whole cortex. (My bold)

This is confirmed by various websites (unless I have badly misunderstood their message and your post): the brain can survive FOR SOME MINUTES after the heart stops. The physical reflexes are gone, but it would seem from these accounts that consciousness remains for those few minutes. So the cortex as the “seat of awareness” DOES still function for 4-6 minutes. How does that prove that it is not the source of consciousness? Again: once the cortex is well and truly dead, you can use experiences as evidence for dualism.

DAVID: But from what patients tell physicians they are able to experience events around them for the minutes it takes to fully resuscitate them. I've had courses is resuscitation and resuscitated patients. I've had patients tell me abut out of body experiences during surgery. The cortex is the only seat of awareness known, and its not functioning. But consciousness is! Dualism is supported.

The cortex is not functioning as the motor for physical reflexes, but the brain activity the researchers have recorded after the stoppage of the heart and the experiences that coincide with that brief period show that it is still functioning as the “seat of awareness”, which suggests that it is the SOURCE of consciousness.