near to death episodes: latest study (Endings)

by David Turell , Thursday, November 02, 2017, 14:17 (2365 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: You have limited your comment about the cortex to four minutes, but resuscitations can go on for 40 minutes (I've been here) before recovery or death. Remember the van Lommel patient and the teeth, which were removed after the fellow was brought into the hospital (time not specified) and took 45 minutes to resuscitate. I still read the original study as supporting consciousness without a functional cortex, therefore evidence for dualism.

dhw: It was you who pinpointed the limitations of the article, as I quoted above: “consciousness survives brain death for a few minutes. It is obviously separate from the brain itself, and if so dualism is correct.” I am happy to go along with your own speculation: if the cortex is not dead, regardless of the time span, perhaps there are deeper levels of brain activity, and these would explain how patients can be aware of events going on around them (including the removal of the patient’s teeth). But they would NOT explain awareness of events such as a relative’s death a thousand miles away. THAT, as I keep repeating, is where you will find your evidence for dualism. Not in the extremely limited article that launched this discussion.

I'll repeat Parnia:

"Medical staff confirm this, he said. So how could those who were technically dead be cognizant of what’s happening around them? Even after our breathing and heartbeat stops, we’re conscious for about 2-20 seconds, Dr. Parnia says. That’s how long the cerebral cortex is thought to last without oxygen. This is the thinking and decision-making part of the brain. It’s also responsible for deciphering the information gathered from our senses.

"According to Parnia during this period, "You lose all your brain stem reflexes — your gag reflex, your pupil reflex, all that is gone." Brain waves from the cerebral cortex soon become undetectable. Even so, it can take hours for our thinking organ to fully shut down.

"Usually, when the heart stops beating, someone performs CPR (cardiopulmonary resuscitation). This will provide about 15% of the oxygen needed to perform normal brain function. "If you manage to restart the heart, which is what CPR attempts to do, you'll gradually start to get the brain functioning again,” Parnia said. “The longer you're doing CPR, those brain cell death pathways are still happening — they're just happening at a slightly slower rate.'"

http://bigthink.com/philip-perry/after-death-youre-aware-that-youve-died-scientists-cla...

For me case closed. Until you get full cardiac function there is coma. Yet patients report experiences. All resuscitation does is limit cell death. Your comment about learning of unknown facts is a stronger example I admit.