near to death episodes: latest study (Endings)

by dhw, Thursday, October 26, 2017, 12:31 (2583 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: Go back and read the article. Parnia is studying people who are clinically brain dead, and finds them experiencing events they should not be aware of. Inactive brain while having experiences is dualism to me.

dhw: I can’t get the whole article, so I am relying on what you posted. The only experiences recounted in the article are of events taking place in the presence of the patient, and the article is absolutely explicit that during these few minutes the brain is ACTIVE:

QUOTES:
"However, there’s evidence to suggest that there’s a burst of brain energy as someone dies.
"They saw activity patterns which are linked to a “hyper-alerted state” in the brief period after clinical death.” (My bold)

If there is a burst of brain energy in a hyper-alerted state and there are activity patterns in the brief period after clinical death, then the brain can’t be called inactive!

DAVID: I gave you the entire article. The hyperactivity is BRIEF, not the whole period of the resuscitation. Brain function stops in about 20 seconds after blood flow stops. Brain death is absolute in adults in 4-6 minutes after blood flow stops. Resuscitation maintains blood flow until the heart can be restarted, so the brain gets enough blood to avoid death, but not to create consciousness.

I know it’s brief. That is the point. You wrote: “Inactive brain while having experiences is dualism to me.” The researchers only describe that brief period, and the experiences of the patients refer only to that brief period when the brain was ACTIVE. Evidence for dualism would have to relate to experiences and information obtained when the brain CEASES to be active.

DAVID:(2nd post): It is generally assumed that once the EEG is flat ( in 2-20 seconds) the brain is no longer receiving stimuli through consciousness. No one knows what the surge of electrical activity means other than extra electricity is recorded briefly as the brain stops receiving oxygen. Since some patients in NDE's can recognize activity around them for many minutes, the surge doesn't explain what is happening. Still evidence for dualism.

Your 2-20 seconds is irrelevant. You say “brain death is absolute” after 4-6 minutes, and so the brain is NOT dead for those minutes. That is the time when the patients recognized activity around them. If they can provide information about what happens when the brain is “absolutely” dead (and especially about events outside the operating theatre – as in many other NDEs), I’ll agree that it provides evidence for dualism.