The Horrors of Evolution (Evolution)

by edinburgh4 , Sunday, September 07, 2008, 16:54 (5919 days ago) @ dhw
edited by unknown, Sunday, September 07, 2008, 17:06

In an earlier posting you quote a modern translation of Romans 11, 32: "For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all."
George points out that in the Authorized Version this reads: "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all."
I have a different modern translation, which reads: "For God has shut them all up together in disobedience, that he might show all of them mercy." - Thanks for your reply dhw I will try to give an answer. Again I'd say don't take my word for it that this is the Christian position but read the Bible and check it out for yourself. - Strong's numbers is a book which most Christians respect when it comes to getting more detail on what a word meant in the original Greek or Hebrew. It works by taking the entire text of the Bible and placing identical numbers over every word that is identical in the original language. Then in the back of the book it gives a dictionary definition of that word. It helps people who are not language experts get a more precise meaning of a word. Today with computers you can download a free King James Bible with Strong's Numbers. When you hover your mouse over a word its various meanings will pop up. - Where a word has many meanings English translators are tied to only using one word if they want the passage to flow so they have to make a choice. I often find that when I look at the meaning of a Greek word then most of its meanings fit the passage (I think that is why God chose these words). I think this passage is an example of that. This is what Strong's say about the word unbelief/disobedience. - apeitheia
ap-i'-thi-ah
From G545; disbelief (obstinate and rebellious): - disobedience, unbelief.
 - Now to us unbelief and disobedience seem like very different things however in the Bible's logic they are very strongly linked. - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. John 3:18-20 - I think I could go as few as to say the Bible makes the claim that all wrong actions are rooted in unbelief (including those done in the name of God). For example in the Garden of Eden the Serpent says "Did God really ..." and after that Eve rebels against God. Conversely the Bible makes the claim that faith or (trusting obedience) is the source of right action:

"Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
Romans 4:3
 
So I think both translations above are correct and that from looking at the two translations we learn an additional fact about the Bibles world view and that is that unbelief and disobedience are strongly linked. - I can say that this is true in my experience. As a Christian I still do wrong things. I have seen enough answers to prayer to know God is real I have no excuse for not believing in him. Yet in order to do wrong I have to push God out of my mind and pretend he is not real for a bit. If a man has an affair he will normally do it when his wife is not around. What man would bring his secrete lover home when he knows his wife is at home. However if God is everywhere and all knowing I have no secrete place to sin. The best I can do is push God to the back on my mind and treat him like he does not exist for a bit. So the nature of temptation is that it starts with an attack on who God is and it ends with a wrong action. - Jesus' life was an example of perfect trust in God the Father. If we believe that God is real and he is with us then doing wrong is like chatting up the waitress when we take our wife for a meal. - But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; John 16:7-10
 
--- - "For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all." - Note the word may here God has opened up a way by which we may receive mercy. The offer is open to all people however like so many offers it does not last forever. The Bible is clear that not everyone will accept it. - Phil