The Horrors of Evolution (Evolution)

by David Turell , Tuesday, August 12, 2008, 02:29 (5946 days ago) @ dhw

it remains a matter of regret to me that the established religions are not more widely represented. I've found Mark's contributions, for instance, extremely stimulating and would have liked other religious perspectives too. 
 
> The most we can hope for is probability, but if we can't find even that, it doesn't matter so long as we remain tolerant of other people's probabilities and open to any new discoveries that may come our way. 
 - dhw: If I may comment on the two above points: I am not surprised at the lack of participation from the religous. They have their faith and unless they are into active proselytizing as the fundamentalist evangelicals here in Texas around me are, why bother with agnostics who are rooting around ignoring the obvious faith that is available out there. - As for probabilites, to me mathematically it is overwhelmingly obvious that chance has no role in why we are here ruminating about all of this. It is impossible for chance to have created this universe and thinking humans. Penrose calculated the odds against chance using the initial conditions to start the universe at 10^-123rd power! Another of his calculation was one chance in 10^300th power if the intial conditions are not assumed to be present. The odds against life springing up from inorganic matter are equally as large, considering the number of protein molecules of different types that have to be gathered together inside a cell membrane that is bidirectional in actively allowing material to flow in and out. The only argument against odds of chance is the Darwinist claim that step by step changes can avoid the enormous odds. But that is only after life has appeared. Darwin does not give you life, only evolution of life, by a theory that is not proven. Step by step is a pipe dream, never proven, and no way of proving it exists. If in a lab a living cell is created, intelligence did it, not chance. To summarize: enormous odds to have this universe, enormous odds to have life appear, and arguably enormous odds to have a directional evolution that leads to beings with consciousness. - The greater power is concealed, but the conclusion from the math is that it exists. Why should there be anything? A first cause must exist. Accept that conclusion and worry about the attributes of the greater power as a next step.