The Horrors of Evolution (Evolution)

by George Jelliss , Crewe, Tuesday, August 12, 2008, 10:54 (5745 days ago) @ David Turell

David wrote: "George and I may be closer than we realize." But his subsequent remarks make it clear that we are just as far apart as ever. - Like dhw I would like to know the views of Mark, or other religious believers, on the subject of this thread. Though I think I can guess what they would be. - Concerning the debate in which I tried to argue that "Humans provide a purpose to the universe". Probably I didn't present a very good case. My argument was that humans (or any other beings with consciousness) are part of the universe and make the universe, in a sense, aware of itself. Therefore human beings are an important feature of the universe, and not just a temporarily dominant species on this planet, and humanists should embrace this view. - Although Roger Penrose is an outstanding mathematician, his views on the chances of the initial state of the universe, like his views on consciousness, are very much his own and don't seem to be shared by many other physicists. He himself describes his scenario as "a fanciful description" (The Road to Reality, p.730). Victor Stenger argues convincingly for the initial state being a total void; but we've been over all this before. - My point about mathematical and logical principles underlying everything is that even gods, if they existed, would be subject to these laws of necessity. This I think was pretty much Einstein's view, and indeed of Kepler, and is very much in the tradition of Pythagoras ("all is number").