The Horrors of Evolution (Evolution)

by dhw, Sunday, September 07, 2008, 08:00 (5719 days ago) @ edinburgh4

Edinburgh4 writes: "One way the Bible says God has made himself knowable is through the Bible. If God tells us straight out what he thinks we don't have to guess at it or run psychological experiments to trace out his thoughts." - In an earlier posting you quote a modern translation of Romans 11, 32: "For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all." 
George points out that in the Authorized Version this reads: "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all." 
I have a different modern translation, which reads: "For God has shut them all up together in disobedience, that he might show all of them mercy." - Firstly, I'd like to thank you once again for your detailed response to the questions being posed by us non-Christians. As you were once a "convinced agnostic", there's probably very little I can say that you will not already have thought in your pre-Christian days, but the above quotes encapsulate the difficulty of placing any faith in the Bible. Every translation is different, and each one is itself an interpretation, and each individual reader will interpret that interpretation in his own way. - If I look at those three versions, I would say that the first means that God deliberately made man disobedient, so we are puppets, and that enables God to feel good about himself because he forgives us for doing what he has forced us to do. I don't have a clue what the Authorized Version means by "concluded them all in unbelief". The third version suggests that we've been locked up as a group rather than individually, to make it easier for God to deal with us en bloc. I'm not being flippant. I'm genuinely trying to demonstrate why I find it so hard to accept your idea that "God has a purpose behind every word in the Bible." - All three versions suggest that no-one is going to be punished, which in one sense is fair enough, since God is responsible for our disobedience, but in another ... as George points out ... means that mass murderers can rest assured that they too will go to heaven. In other words, it doesn't matter what we do here on Earth. Little wonder, then, that Paul goes on to say "how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!" But George also points out your statement that God "does not let evil go unpunished", and in the same chapter of Romans Paul says "Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity." You say that God's love is "absolute and unconditional", and yet "God hates and punishes evil". How, then, can his love be called unconditional? - The gist of all this is that the Bible, as was pointed out earlier on this site by David Turell, is the work of man, and as a text it is unreliable and open to whatever interpretation you wish to read into it. - However, I have to disagree with George, who says "Love is all very well but is highly over-rated. I prefer Logic any time." I know of no greater joy in life than to love and to be loved, though I'm all in favour of logic. I see no logical reason at all why one should express a preference. If I may adapt Carl's dictum, there is a time for logic and there is a time for emotion. I'm also reminded of the tale of the logical ass, which was offered two identical bags of hay and starved to death.