A possible God's possible purpose and nature (The nature of a \'Creator\')

by David Turell @, Sunday, June 20, 2021, 15:20 (528 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Again you describe evolution and claim God should not have done it that way, but He did.

dhw: “That way” is specially designing millions of life forms and lunches that had no connection with his purpose, as bolded above. I don’t say he shouldn’t have “done it” that way, and you certainly can’t say he did! That way is totally illogical, and therefore I propose alternative theistic explanations (see below) for ALL the life forms and lunches which we know exist/existed. You agree over and over again that these all fit in logically with the history of evolution.

Same illogical point. My view is still simple. God, as Creator, evolved humans from bacteria, and I simply accept the entire history of evolution. I've never understood your objections. They always sound as if 'God did it wrong'.

dhw: You claim that he designed all 99% of non-human-related life forms etc. “as part of the goal of evolving [= designing] humans” plus lunch, as bolded above. I suggest that if he exists and his goal was humans, maybe he was experimenting, or maybe he didn’t start out with the goal of humans, or maybe he set out to create a free-for-all and see what it would produce. All these proposals are theistic and fit in logically with the history of evolution, as you agree. Please stop hiding behind my agnosticism as if that gave any sort of credence to the illogical theory which you like to state as if it were a fact.

So your objection is I don't accept your version of God's reasons and purposes. My God has purpose and your God isn't sure of what He is doing. Our views of who God is differs widely. and that is a reasonable difference. I am sure of my belief, as you search for yours. You started this website to search for ideas, possibly answers, and you are still searching.

DAVID: I can't help you with my God. I simply accept His works. You question His existence.

dhw: Another of your dead-end escape routes, when you know perfectly well that all my alternative explanations of evolution allow for the existence of God. You do not “simply accept his works”. You have determined that he had one purpose etc., as bolded above. Please stop pretending that my agnosticism justifies the illogicality of your theory.

Illogical only to you, so you keep searching.

DAVID: God does not have human desires [...]

dhw: […] how do you know that we do not have desires similar to your God's?

DAVID: How do you know we do?

dhw: I don’t. That is why I offer alternative theories to explain the course of evolution. You reject all my alternatives as if you knew God’s nature: “God does not have human desires.” Your personal beliefs, stated as if they were facts, do not offer any reason at all for rejecting logical alternatives to your own illogical theories about his nature, purposes and methods.

DAVID: Your humanized God always appears to lack purpose. An unguided free-for-all 'on purpose', by definition, has no idea where it will end up. Where is the purposeful result of an evolutionary process headed somewhere by free-for-all?

dhw: Back you go to your other escape route – God only has the humanizing aspects you allow him to have (always in control, single-minded, always has good intentions), but he can’t have any that I propose. You have ignored my previous answer to your objection to a free-for-all, so here we go again. The basis would be your God’s love of creation (which you admit) and his interest in what he has created (which you admit). The proposal is that his purpose in creating would therefore be to provide himself with things that would interest him. And, following your analogy of the creative process, it is far more interesting to create something unpredictable than to know exactly what is coming next. Hence the free-for-all. For all we know, of course, the free-for-all itself might turn out to have a perfectly logical ending – though I have to say, the only one I can envisage is pretty horrifying!

How does a free-for-all process of evolution end up with you and I? Chance? You've rejected chance in a very large part and design has stopped you from being a pure atheist. I've made certain decisions arriving at my God-accepting point of view. As a result our individual views of God widely differ, and as a result the debate continues. I don't have 'escape routes', but a very different view of God than you do. Mine is well-defined and yours whatever you decide He should be. Example: Above your God has to create to interest Himself so His self-satisfaction becomes a necessary event. A totally different view of a possibly existing God than mine. My God creates with pure purpose.

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