A possible God's possible purpose and nature (The nature of a \'Creator\')

by dhw, Thursday, May 27, 2021, 13:53 (1274 days ago) @ David Turell

On this thread, we are trying to work out what your God’s purposes and nature might be, basing our speculations on different possibilities. Previously you argued that he wished to create life because he wished to create humans and their food supply. But if there is no life elsewhere, he just wished to create billions of galaxies because….? If there IS life elsewhere, he wished to create it because…

dhw: If life elsewhere is limited to microbes, what would be the point? A planetful of nothing but bacteria, forever eating whatever there is to be eaten, doesn’t sound like much of a purpose.

DAVID: Why do you decide if life is on other Earth's it must be limited to bacteria?

It’s an “if”!!!! ONE of the possibilities. But it led to me to side-track, because that would strengthen the case for abiogenesis, unless you think your God’s “wish to create” would be satisfied with nothing but bacteria.

dhw: […] if conditions were right, the necessary materials would automatically form themselves into primitive life, and perhaps in some cases primitive life would evolve into more complex life.

DAVID: Why do you jump to the conclusion it must be abiogenesis on these foreign Earths?

It’s not a conclusion! If there is no life, then we are left with the insoluble question of why your God would create billions of galaxies in order to produce us. If there is nothing but primitive life, I am asking why God would bother. And so these two scenarios would strengthen the case (that is not a conclusion) for spontaneous generation. But it is a side issue, and perhaps I should not have raised it.

DAVID: Why can't God start life elsewhere? That is what I think. It doesn't disturb me. Why can't it even evolve to brilliant humans or their equivalent?

It could do. I’m considering all options and their implications for our vision of a possible God.

dhw: If you believe that God did it all, and there are other Earths with other life forms, the less likely it becomes that we Earthlings are his focal point. Away goes the argument that Earth is special and we were your God’s one and only purpose.

DAVID: It doesn't 'go away' at all. We Earthlings are special focal point here. We can accept other Earths might be special and support life and might evolve specialized life forms comparable to humans. Why not? Why can't God have several focal points in the universe? It answers you unreasonable weird worry God made the universe unnecessarily too big.

Yes, if millions of galaxies are home to millions of life forms, the size makes sense. But if you have millions of Earths with millions of human-like life forms, your God will have millions of focal points, and so the claim that we are a “special focal point here” – which has always been your contention – becomes a little unconvincing.

DAVID: What we have covered is we have minds that think, which makes us somewhat equal to God's mind and which allows our abstract theorizing to recognize the concept of a God.

I’m surprised that you use the word “equal”, even if qualified by “somewhat”, but it ties in with the notion that your God may have thought patterns and emotions similar to ours.

dhw: Our starting point, then, is the possibility of life elsewhere, and why it doesn’t “disturb” you, despite your belief that we are your God’s one and only purpose for creating the universe.

DAVID: Once we open up the possibility of other Earths with other possible humans, your limited misinterpretation of my overall theology quickly disappears. Human-similar forms doesn't bother me at all, as I've shown above.

The questions I’m asking relate to the different options. No life at all begs the question: why such a big universe? Bacteria only: not much of a purpose, is it? Human-similar: that’s the really interesting one for us: why would he want to create humans? And also, since you believe in an afterlife:

dhw: What aspects of your God’s purpose and/or nature do you think an afterlife might reflect?

DAVID: We both agree NDE's strongly suggest an afterlife. I have no problem with other human-similar forms having their own afterlife. Why should God treat other forms elsewhere in the universe in a different manner? Human-similar is to understand a thinking mind equal to ours, the extraordinary result of evolution once neurons were created. God has every right to create as many human-similars as He wishes.

I am not questioning his right to do whatever he wishes. I am trying to delve into his possible reasons for doing what he does or might do. You emphatically believe that creating humans was his one and only purpose in creating life, and I really can’t believe that you have never asked yourself what might have been his purpose in creating humans or in letting you live on after the death of your body.