A possible God's possible purpose and nature (The nature of a \'Creator\')

by dhw, Sunday, May 30, 2021, 12:40 (549 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: …if there is no life or only primitive life elsewhere, why do you think he would have designed billions of galaxies? [See later for humans elsewhere.]

DAVID: I view the entire universe as fine-tuned to allow life. Like your approach to evolution you are now slicing up the universe into differing unrelated parts. I view it as all related to the purpose of allowing life to appear.

And here I am asking why you think the billions of both extant and extinct galaxies (lifeless or only with primitive life) all had to be created just to allow humans to appear on Earth. Your answer is the same as your answer on evolution (why did your God specially design all the life forms unconnected with humans?): “we don’t know the answer, but I accept them as part of God’s purpose.” No you don’t “accept” – that presupposes you know you are right that they are part of the purpose you impose on him. That is your BELIEF. And you can’t find any logical justification for it.

DAVID: You are implying, without any reason, that God just creates for the sake of creating, when I have clearly proposed God is very purposeful in creating what He wishes to create, as in a goal of humans.

dhw: […] I agree that if he exists, he must have a purpose!...But your guess is that he created the universe in order to create humans, and so I ask why you think your purposeful God would have wanted to create galaxies (a) without life or with only with primitive life, or (b) with humans or their like. Then all of a sudden, your rigid belief in your guess that humans were the purpose turns into a refusal to guess at his purpose for any of these, because that would only be a guess and not knowledge! (“To know requires more research, not guesses.”)

DAVID: Of course, to fully understand the universe requires more knowledge from research. We are here on Earth and I've said others like us may be elsewhere. God has created deeply observant, very thoughtful humans. That was obviously a purpose that Adler uses to prove God's existence. The type of universe we have allows life. And all you want is unanswerable answers using your God-given human inquiring mind when such minds in the past have been wrong about what God has invented by claiming poor design.

On this thread, we are not discussing God’s existence but his possible purpose and nature. “Poor design” is irrelevant. If it will help you to stick to the subject, I will grant you that life is brilliantly designed. I am merely asking you what you think might be the purpose of billions of barren galaxies, and galaxies with nothing but primitive life. And if there are human-type beings elsewhere, what do you think is your purposeful God’s purpose in designing them? We’ll leave out theodicy for now.

DAVID: I believe my own conclusions based on the evidence I have reviewed. You ask me for guessed-at opinions and I have constantly refused and then you blame me for not wanting to discuss. Please accept that much of what you would like to know is unanswerable.

Everything that I would like to know is unanswerable – right through to the existence of God. But you have fixed views, despite the fact that all your conclusions are “guessed-at opinions”. You are quite prepared to guess at your God’s existence, his good intentions, his absolute control, his design of all species “de novo” – despite your belief in “common descent” – as part of his one and only goal to design humans, and his creation of billions of galaxies to allow life to appear, even if that life is confined to one planet in one galaxy. So surely it’s not unfair of me to ask you to explain why you think he would have designed all the galaxies for just one species (plus food supply) or, even if there are more of us elsewhere, why he wanted to design us in the first place? We both agree that if God exists, he must be purposeful, so why do you blame me for wanting to discuss your “guessed-at opinions” and possible alternatives? […]

DAVID: […]This universe is fine-tuned for life. I don't question God's work, while you unreasonably do. Wait for research to explain. I can. Can you?

I do not question the existence of billions of galaxies, which are God’s work if he exists. I question your concept of your purposeful God’s purpose for designing them. You have left the first two options unanswered (no life or just primitive life), and if the third option is correct, you refuse to guess what your purposeful God’s purpose might be in creating human-type life. You did offer an answer to all these questions earlier: “I simply accept what we see as God’s wish to create”. You then denied that God wished for anything, and so perhaps we can clear up some of the confusion if you explain what you meant by “God’s wish to create”.

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