Before the Big Bang? (Origins)

by David Turell , Thursday, August 18, 2016, 22:59 (3017 days ago) @ dhw


> dhw" The pattern you referred to was the “Standard Model”. Until the vacuum of knowledge has been filled, how can you claim that the pattern constitutes an “integrated quantum plan”? -All I claimed was that the current discoveries fit into a pattern that allowed Higgs his prediction. It's logic for him presents the idea that a mind planned it. Of course we don't know if a pattern fits into the undiscovered portions, which may or may not exist, but should we expect differently? Obviously I can only make my judgments about God based on current knowledge, and I will continue to do so.
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> DAVID:(Addendum) Ran into an article that illustrates my point about the need for further discoveries in particle physics:
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> https://www.newscientist.com/article/2101550-surfer-physicist-wins-superparticle-bet-wi... 
> dhw: I don't think anyone would disagree that further discoveries need to be made. And I hope nobody will disagree that until they are made, there is absolutely no guarantee that they will confirm the current pattern, let alone constitute an “integrated quantum plan” which “strongly suggests” that there is a God. You are putting carts before horses in exactly the same way as Dawkins does in describing his atheist approach: “If there is something beyond the natural world as it is now imperfectly understood, we hope eventually to understand it and embrace it within the natural.” (God Delusion, p. 15). He hopes his materialistic pattern will be confirmed (and lots of past mysteries have indeed turned out to have natural explanations, thus confirming his pattern “so far”), and you hope your own pattern will be confirmed (though only bits of it have been confirmed “so far”). No harm in hoping, and you may be right, but BBella's alternative (above) remains just as feasible.-Point accepted, but I'll take my approach over BBella's.