Proof of ID (Introduction)

by dhw, Wednesday, December 18, 2013, 19:47 (3993 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: I am proposing that cells and cell communities "might have a designing intelligence of their own", and like every other human on this planet, I don't know where any form of intelligence came from.
DAVID: Fair enough. And where might that independent source of intelligence in the cells be hiding? No evidence other than biochemical reactions so far.-I have no idea, but Albrecht-Buehler says the cellular control centre is the centrosome. There is no evidence of where human intelligence is "hiding" other than biochemical reactions within the brain. You believe in the human soul, so tell me where that is "hiding". -dhw: ......I really do wonder how many programmes your God could have squeezed into those first few cells. However, this hypothesis of yours allows you to "reject out of hand" the alternative that your God might have created a flexible form of intelligence that enabled organisms to create their own innovations as and when circumstances allowed or demanded them, e.g. the collective intelligence of the fire ants produced the raft. I demand equal rights for Matt and myself!
DAVID: Matt and you can gang up, but you have no idea any more than I do how variation is driven if chance has no chance of working. At least I can show the biochemical processes that have been found. After that all I have is supposition, and remind you that the obvious push to create humans got no drive from the demands of nature.-Since you have no more idea than we have, by your own standards you should not reject out of hand an alternative to your divine preprogramming hypothesis. The biochemical processes are not in dispute. For the so-called "push", see "Different in degree or kind".-Matt: I've heard one statement recently that the development of rudimentary eye cells was the catalyst for the Cambrian. It seems to have appeared independently in many places at once. I guess I'll put it this way, I'd want to hear what the mechanism was, if it was a creator. How did something come from the ethereal mist and construct a cell from the blue?
DAVID: I've read the same comment. Read Simon Conway Morris about convergence that he shows is all through the development of life (i.e., six types of eyes)and he uses this as an example of how purposeful life is as a support for God.-Convergence fits in perfectly with the concept of intelligent cells independently coming up with their own variations according to the conditions, and you can still keep your God as the creator of the initial D-I-Y mechanism. As a matter of interest, has the Christian Conway Morris ever at any time to your knowledge, David, advocated a mixture of divine preprogramming of the first cells plus the occasional divine dabble as an explanation of how evolution proceeds?