Intelligence & Evolution (Evolution)

by David Turell , Sunday, December 01, 2013, 21:21 (4008 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: I have no problem with your claim that your interpretation has as much weight as his [Shapiro]. My problem is your denial that his interpretation (and that of several others in this specialized field) has as much weight as yours.-They have a right to their own interpretations. All I am saying is what they provide as information are a series of automatic biochemcial reactions to stimuli.
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> dhw:I have never doubted the honesty of your conclusions..... They are all unequivocal in their conclusion that cells are intelligent.-The cells follow intelligent plans. That is a different level of interpretation of the cells responses.-> DAVID: Autonomous intelligence requires a source mechanism. Please supply one. I think out of thin air is appropriate and acceptable.
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> dhw: "Intelligence is a fractal property or/and an emergent property: ...Intelligent ecologies contain intelligent populations, which contain intelligent organisms, which contain intelligent cells, which contain intelligent compartments, which contain...and so forth." (Albrecht-Buehler). He thinks the source mechanism or "brain" is the centrosome.-Note the word "he thinks". I think also. Of course decisions are made inthe centrosome, but I think they are all automatic guided by the strength of the stimulous to pipck a planned response. Believe me, he cannot deny that thought.
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> dhw; You say it has no basis in research because you are not prepared to take Margulis, Shapiro, Albrecht-Buehler and all the other researchers seriously.-Of course I take them seriously. I use their research to reach my conclusions.-> dhw: And yet you have failed to provide one single researcher who backs your zealous defence of your theory of billions of innovative, adaptive, strategic programmes divinely inserted into the first cells.-I've told you over and over all the ID folks feel like I do. Please take my word for it. I know what I have read. -> 
> dhw: But you keep telling us how you think the inventions were created: you insist that they were either preprogrammed billions of years ago, or God dabbled. And you refuse point blank to consider the possibility that your God might have created an intelligent mechanism that did its own inventing.-I've admitted that, when I point out how clever life is at coming up with natures wonders.
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> dhw: Once again, you prefer to ignore the fact that I am offering a hypothesis to explain the course of evolution. One possible explanation of the "intelligent cell" is that God created it, so that gives you your one First Cause.-Fine, I accept that possibility. What you have been doing is conjuring up intelligent cells with no real explanation, while downgrading the chance mechanism of Darwin. I'll accept it gratefully. Now you sound like an IDer.