Intelligence (Origins)

by dhw, Wednesday, March 06, 2013, 12:19 (4278 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: Please tell us how your indefinable, nebulous, unresearchable God theory answers the questions you have asked about mine.-DAVID: We agree upon first cause that contains information. The problem between us is how organized is that information. I do not believe the concept you favor can go anywhere except by chance, a process which you disavow. I believe only a fully formed mind can avoid chance. Your theory does not describe avoidance of chance. Therefore it falls apart.-In your previous post my theory apparently fell apart because I couldn't tell you where the information came from, how it was transmitted, what shape it had, how to define it. In my response I levelled the same unanswerable and therefore of course unanswered criticism at your God theory. As regards chance, all our experience of life on Earth shows us that complex material combinations can be created by forms of intelligence that do not have our own degree of self-awareness (genetic mechanisms in plants, animals, insects, birds have engendered huge innovations, and they themselves can also weld materials into complex patterns). According to your hypothesis, every single innovation either had to be pre-programmed into the first cells and passed on intact through trillions of generations and zillions of individual organisms, or your God nipped in each time with his telekinetic powers to rejiggle the genes. Perhaps you would tell us which of these extraordinary procedures you believe in. My own hypothesis does not rely on chance or on a god. It relies on forms of intelligence less developed than our own, progressively accumulating knowledge and information with each and every successful new combination. (See "orphan genes" below.)
 
DAVID: There is a scientific way to detect design as the design theorists have shown, Michael Behe in particular, and Dembski as another. In any evolutionary process the advancement is either through hunt-and-peck chance or directive design.
 
I would add the name of Turell when it comes to a scientific study of how mechanisms work. This may well (and in my view understandably) lead to a non-scientific inference that the mechanisms have been designed. Any further inference as to how and by what the mechanisms were designed is pure speculation and has nothing to do with science. My hypothesis does not reject design. It is an alternative to your hypothesis of a single, self-aware, purposeful, knew-it-all-from the beginning designer. -DAVID: The Orphan gene article I just presented offers a possible glimpse into a DNA directed designed advance.-Yes, it does. And it is fascinating: 
"Over time, the gene may come to be expressed in other tissues and evolve new functions. 
New discoveries about the nature of proteins also make the idea of genes arising de novo seem far more plausible. It was once thought proteins must be folded into a delicate, precise 3D structure to work properly, but it now seems many exist in a state of intrinsic disorder, flitting through thousands of different possible conformations, all the while remaining perfectly functional."-There could scarcely be a better description of the whole process of cosmic and biological evolution, in which many of the elements "exist in a state of intrinsic disorder, flitting through thousands of different conformations, all the while remaining perfectly functional." Why would a "fully formed mind" with a specific purpose and with the knowledge of how to achieve its purpose have to experiment with thousands of different possible conformations in order to reach that purpose? The higgledy-piggledy history of the universe and of life as we know them is filled with comings and goings that fit in perfectly with the concept of an undirected "intelligent" energy which has diversified ad hoc into countless different forms of matter, some remaining as they were, some progressively becoming more complex, knowledgeable and aware, and the vast majority probably disappearing back into the infinite pool.