Love me or else (Part One) (Where is it now?)

by dhw, Thursday, January 03, 2013, 13:18 (4343 days ago) @ Balance_Maintained

TONY: One common thread of miscommunication in this seems to be in the definition of an afterlife. To me "after life" lends itself to the concept of something other than life. [...] If you include resurrection, which to me is equivalent to resuscitation, or a return to the state of living, then yes, I suppose I do believe in an after life. I guess the language barrier strikes again.-As it so often does. Now that we've agreed that life after death = an afterlife, may I once more try your patience by outlining the scenario presented by your interpretation of Revelations:-We all die. We are all resurrected. In this second life, those who love God will go on living with him forever, but those who in the second life continue to be unbelievers, fornicators, liars etc. will die for a second time and that will be the end of them. Is this correct?-If it is, may I ask you to humour my obsessive need to tie up loose ends. It would be helpful if you would answer in your own words, rather than in quotes. In the new earth (or Jerusalem), each of us will be resurrected physically, since we are still capable of murder and fornication. Will the new earth then be capable of holding and sustaining every human that ever lived (plus resurrected animals, so we can eat them all over again?), or will the resurrection be an on-going process? And will dhw, who died at the ripe old age of 90, be resurrected as a 90-year-old? Since the opportunity for capital crimes such as murder, fornication and agnosticism must still be available, the new earth can hardly be different from the old earth until God has got rid of us sinners, so do you think there will be a Judgement Day as touted by many Christians? Or will judgement be continuous, with the new Jerusalem divided, so that the faithful can go and live separately with God in their section? If the first death was our punishment for being sinners, and we start afresh in the second life but are still the same person, living in a similar world full of murderers, fornicators and agnostics, what do you think might make the 90-year-old dhw do better second time around (apart from the obvious physical incapabilities!)? I know some of this may sound facetious, but please believe me, my motives are serious.-TONY: As for your comments regarding the burning hell and what not, I have not ignored it. I presented scriptural evidence that explained that the 'lake of fire' concept simply meant a second death from which there is no return, which also falls in line with the use of 'fire' throughout the book which is used to reference complete destruction and/or total annihilation, not some eternal torment. -I'd better make it clear that I don't believe in hell either. The starting point of this whole thread was the "Love me or else..." threat posed throughout the bible. The discussion on hell is actually a digression. If "the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone" actually means eternal death (though why that should be equated with fire and brimstone rather than cold earth I really don't know), it doesn't make any difference to the argument. Instead of God saying love me or I'll torment you forever, he's saying love me or I'll kill you forever, so you won't live happily ever after with me. Admittedly nothing like as nasty as eternal torment, but it's the judgemental criteria and exercise of power that I find so off-putting. Fortunately, even though I'm one of the unbelievers on the list of those earmarked for a final cremation, this won't keep me awake at nights, because I just can't find any reason whatsoever for believing John ... if he wrote it ... or any of the other unknown, fallible humans who come up with such predictions.
 
I'm sorry that despite your valiant efforts (and I must stress that I do appreciate your scholarship and your patience), I still find no comfort in religion. But don't give up on me! I still have an open mind on NDEs etc., and the implications of those are very far-reaching.