Love me or else (Where is it now?)

by dhw, Monday, December 17, 2012, 19:24 (4360 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: Fairly apparent = beyond a reasonable doubt, and dhw's doubts are, according to your position, unreasonable. But you are my cowboy buddy, my science mentor, and the recipient of my boundless respect, admiration and affection, and so I forgive you, for you know not what you say.-DAVID: Our battle over the Bible is a matter of looking at the history of God.-I don't know why this makes my doubts unreasonable. The history of god(s) consists of countless stories, of which the Bible is just one collection. There's no reason at all to assume that it's any more accurate than any other version of the creative force, and although it's perfectly possible that all religions have aspects of truth in them (if there really is some kind of self-aware energy behind our existence), absolutely no-one has any authority whatsoever to lay claim to "the" truth. All believers worship their own (or someone else's) subjective version of something none of them can possibly know.-DAVID: It is easy to look past all that and apply reason to the presence of God, as shown by his acts, the muslim approach.-The origin of life and of consciousness is an absolute mystery, which in my view requires a completely open-minded approach, as it's certainly not going to be solved in our lifetime, if ever. What other "acts" are you referring to that show God's presence? You have always maintained that he keeps himself hidden!-DAVID: Agnosticism should not be a reaction to religious stupidity, but an open-minded approach to reality, which you are trying to do, and I will keep teaching, for I shall not give up. Your mind is too good to be wasted by disbelief! Remember, I've been there.-Agnosticism is a reaction to the unprovable claims of religionists and atheists that they have the solution to the mysteries of life and consciousness. I would never call their respective theories stupid, and unlikely though all of them seem to me, one must certainly be closer to the truth than the rest! That is why, in your assessment of my wasted mind, I would prefer non-belief to disbelief.-As for your having been there, the world is full of religious people who have turned atheist, and atheists who have turned religious. I began religious, turned atheist, and switched to agnostic, all before I reached my twenties, and nothing since then has got me off my fence. However, I'm happy to learn, truly appreciate your indefatigable efforts to enlighten me, and am grateful that you have not given up!