Abiogenesis (Origins)

by David Turell , Thursday, August 04, 2011, 15:42 (4858 days ago) @ broken_cynic


> What 'astonishingly complex mechanisms' do you suggest that chance must supply? All that is necessary to begin with is imperfect self-replication. If we assume, for the sake of argument, the classic protein in a warm chemical soup then there may well have been an effectively infinite number of proteins over billions of years before that one oddball with a lucky difference. There may even have been billions that turned that particular trick, but only one that thrived. There's a good chance we will never know the details.-I must step in. You have admitted that you are not well-read in this area of science. The 'classic protein' was tossed out a long time ago. Going from inorganic molecules to organic alone is a giant step, and the Earth started as inorganic. -One of the world's leading experts, Robert Shapiro believes in an inorganic energy cycle is a reasonable starting point. His book, 'Origins', is the best place to start an understanding as to how complex the process must be.-http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v476/n7358/full/476030a.html-
> The idea of a creator adds complexity vastly above and beyond that required for chance to do the job, as instead of just trying to figure out where a very simple self-replicating organic mechanism came from you now need to explain the origins of something that operates outside of our entire realm of experience. As you have apparently asked before on this board: who created the creator? A creator is not even an alternative hypothesis, it's just a way of passing the buck so far along that one no longer need bother even attempting to see where it stops.-After 65 years of research we have no idea of how to get to that 'simple molecule' and Shapiro doubts it is anything like RNA:-"Deamer's thesis diverges from the standard RNA-world concept. He focuses not on the generation of a naked RNA-like polymer, but on the formation of a simple cell-like compartment, or vesicle. Modern cells are enclosed by a complex fatty membrane, which prevents leakage. Vesicles with similar properties have been formed in the lab from certain fatty acids. Deamer holds that the spontaneous formation of vesicles, into which RNA could be incorporated, was a crucial step in life's origin. Unfortunately, his theory retains the improbable generation of self-replicating polymers such as RNA.
 Nevertheless, Deamer's insight deflates the synthetic proofs put forward in numerous papers supporting the RNA world. He ends First Life by calling for the construction of a new set of biochemical simulators that match more closely the conditions on the early Earth. Unfortunately, the chemicals that he suggests for inclusion are drawn from modern biology, not from ancient geochemistry. We should let nature inform us, rather than pasting our ideas onto her."