More Miscellany: Bechly reappears (General)

by dhw, Tuesday, May 14, 2024, 12:06 (191 days ago) @ David Turell

Snakes, fungi, wasps and the possum

dhw (re wasps): How the strategy originates is a matter of speculation, but QUOTE: “From then on, it was part of the wasp, passed on to each new generation.” And the chance theory clearly gives way to a form of intelligent control from within the community. QUOTE:: “The parts… still can talk to each other. And they still make products that cooperate with each other to make virus particles.”

DAVID: All you have done is redescribe the process, avoiding the conceptualization requirement issue.

My point is that there is NO conceptualization, if by that you mean consciously formulating plans in advance. We don’t know how strategies originate, but the trigger has to be whatever problem needs to be solved. If bacteria can come up with solutions, why can’t snakes, wasps, and our old friend the possum? I find it hard to believe that they all receive precise instructions from your God – whether through a dabble or a 3.8-billion-year-old programme of solutions for all problems – and I think the likeliest explanation is a mixture of intelligence, problem-solving ability, trial and error, and sheer luck. Once the strategy has succeeded, it will be passed on.

How to think about God (formerly “origin of nervous system”)

DAVID: […] In a theology class you would be laughed out the door. You have no idea how to think about God as true theologians do.

dhw: […] So true theologians all agree that your God’s one and only purpose was to create us and our food, and his method was messy, cumbersome and inefficient; that he is to blame for the slaughter of 50 million people by the flu bug which he designed and could not control, but we shouldn’t be afraid of his bugs because they also do us good; that he did not want a Garden of Eden but allowed/created evil because otherwise he and we would have been bored; that he doesn’t want to be worshipped or recognized because that would make him self-interested; that he is/isn’t interested in his creations; and that although he probably has thought patterns and emotions like ours, he is certainly not human in any sense. […] Do all “true” theologians share the laughable beliefs I have listed above?

DAVID: I haven't produced a paper to see the responses in percentages.

I beg you not to.

Global warming

DAVID: Get informed about climate theory. […] Can you tell yourself you have enough background to make an informed choice? [...]

dhw: I don’t have enough knowledge to make an “informed” choice. Nor do you, and unfortunately nor do the experts, since they cannot agree. However, yesterday I listed some of the causes and some of the effects of climate change (melting ice caps, deforestation, lost species, pollution etc.). Are you denying that they are all threats to our planet?

DAVID: No threats. Problems to be logically addressed. You as a liberal live in fright. I am very conservative and much less emotional about issues.

Why do you think a problem doesn’t represent a threat? I don’t care about political labels or degrees of emotion. The damage is real and is escalating. Yes, the problems need to be logically addressed and solved. I'm glad you agree.

One cubic millimetre of brain

DAVID: Darwin theory type of evolution cannot create this.

dhw: […] Do you believe that the sapiens brain was created “de novo”, or that it evolved from earlier brains that were less complex? If it’s the latter, then it’s covered by Darwin’s theory of common descent.[…]

DAVID: Bechly's answer is in bold view. De novo in a giant jump from previous, much simpler forms. We have a giant fore brain and cortex as does the generally equal Neanderthal. Denisovans have not offered us skulls so we don't know if they were equals.

dhw: We’re not talking about “equals”, and I’m talking to you, not to Bechly. Past brains, just like current animal brains including other primate brains, have many features in common with the sapiens brain. Yes or no? So do you believe that the sapiens brain was created “de novo”, or that it evolved from earlier brains that were less complex?

DAVID: Yes, what is in our brain has some less complex parts from previous brains. What has been added is a giant single step. Bechly's thought. I use experts to support my research. Bechly has talked to you. He won't go away. Why do you dislike a Ph.D. fellow you don't know.

Why are you making this personal? Nobody knows the truth about how evolution works, and the fact that you prefer one expert view to another expert view does not get us very far. That is why I asked you my question, which you still haven’t answered. How giant is a giant step? Does it mean that the whole human brain had to be designed “de novo”, or could it be that just as preceding brains had complexified and expanded, the sapiens brain added extra cells and connections to those inherited from our ancestors, and these ultimately complexified to their modern state of superiority?