More Miscellany (General)

by dhw, Monday, April 29, 2024, 09:11 (18 days ago) @ David Turell

A new consciousness declaration

dhw: Thank you for providing yet more evidence for Shapiro’s theory that cells gather information, respond to changes in conditions, and make decisions based on what is best for their survival.

DAVID: No question, cells adapt but only at a local level, not speciation.

dhw: Another authoritative statement of opinion.

DAVID: Why are you afraid of opinions? You know my view, and I know yours.

I am not afraid of opinions. But I’m not happy when people express opinions as if they were facts, as in “No question…” Of course there is a question.

Bioluminescence

Dealt with above.

Importance of Microbiome (now back to boredom and theodicy)

DAVID: Does He have emotions like ours is questionable. Religions claim He loves us, but is that human wishful thinking? I have never been 'certain' about God's personal attributes you listed. Perhaps it is my human wishes that He be that way.

dhw: You were once certain he enjoyed creating and was interested in his creations, but apparently you have never been certain. You are certain that he is omnipotent, omniscient, all-good, can’t get bored, is selfless and acts without self-interest etc. In fact, you are certain about anything that supports your wishes, and you are certain in your rejection of anything that contradicts them.

DAVID: That is my right as an individual thinker.

You have “never been certain about God’s attributes” which I listed, but you are certain about some of them, as is your right.Maybe you should also say you never contradict yourself.

The role of the interstitium

dhw: logical outcome of a reductive approach would seem to be just how each individual cell plays its part, and perhaps the beginner’s mind will find that each cell actually knows what it’s doing. But I acknowledge that you would expect the approach to lead to the conclusion that all cells are robots obeying your God’s instructions.

DAVID: In DNA there are instructions, but as these articles show there are other levels of communication constantly in action.

dhw: All of which reinforce the image of a vast community of communities cooperating to perform existing functions and to respond to new requirements. It is certainly not unreasonable to suggest that they know what they’re doing.

DAVID: "Know" in a mental sense? Please define.

To be aware of the available information, to deliberately process it, communicate with other cells, and make decisions as to the best way to deal with it. This is what all organisms do in order to survive, and I don’t think even you believe that all living organisms are robots whose decisions always depend on instructions provide by your God.

Aquatic spiders

DAVID: Why did the spiders go back to water? As with whales many physiological changes had to occur. God must have stepped in as a designer.

The article answers your question: “Presumably, the spiders that later returned to a life aquatic were strongly drawn by something to eat there, or driven by unsafe conditions on land.” This would also be a very reasonable explanation for pre-whales leaving the land. In their case, you had your God making the changes before the pre-whales entered the water, so do you think he did the same for all the different varieties of aquatic spiders listed in the article: a twiddle here and a fiddle there, and hey ho, off you go to the water? But of course, you will not even consider the possibility that this wide variety of adaptations might be the result of intelligent cells responding to new conditions in their own different ways. And I’d better not ask why you think your God specially designed all these variations. Do we humans really need them or use them?