philosophy of science: meaning and functions (Introduction)

by David Turell , Wednesday, October 03, 2018, 00:18 (2031 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: According to you he ended his isolation by creating the universe and life in all its many forms extant and extinct. He must have had a reason for doing so. Once more: why do you find it illogical to suggest that he might have been bored with his isolation?

DAVID: My view is that God has never been alone. Note my constant position that God always existed and made one universe after another. Why should we be the only one in an eternity of time?

dhw: No matter how many material universes and humans (see below) he created, as first cause pure energy (according to you) he must still have preceded their creation and had a motive for creating them.

As both Tony and I have told you boredom is a human emotion. You cannot leave his human level, which He has but much more. Each iteration of a universe has an evolution of creatures and He may be interested in seeing how each group works out their existence. He is not experimenting but observing. Will each set of humans appreciate their chance at life. How will they conduct themselves and approach Him?

DAVID: As for humanizing, do you realize any thoughts about His purposes and motives by humans will involve human level thought and a review of our emotions as we set out a purpose for Him. I admit that some of my suppositions are 'human', but I only think about His reasons because you push me to do so.

dhw: Of course it’s humanizing, and you actually agreed that he thinks like us, but then chickened out again with waffle about levels. And of course I push you to think about reasons, when you keep on and on about his actions being purposeful. I’m only surprised that you never thought about his possible reasons before – other than insisting that the purpose of this universe (and presumably all the others you now believe in) was to create the brain of Homo sapiens or of other-universe equivalents.

Not chickening out, but showing you He thinks at our level and also much higher

dhw: We only know of this universe, so I don’t see much point in your now developing a history of other universes and other humans (how about other trilobites, dinosaurs and duckbilled platypuses, while you’re at it?). Perhaps you would just tell us why he would want to create sentient beings who would wonder how he did it.

Answered above. Sentient beings recognize Him and their free will makes them a little unpredictable, so interesting to follow. Unlike Tony I don't let love enter the picture, since love is our wish, not proven by history.

dhw: But you do think that formless energy already had omniscient intelligence and consciousness which came from nowhere.

I'll stick with the undeniable logic that a designer is required. It is what made me a believer.

DAVID: Something started the series of events that resulted in this universe to appear and us to appear. The beginning had to be able to think. Pure energy plasma cannot develop itself into a mind. Read Nagel!!

dhw: Now I’m really confused. “Pure energy plasma” can’t develop itself into a mind, but “pure energy” (your description of your God) is already a mind. Please explain.

What enormous complexity of biology of life we see requires a planing and designing mind, in my opinion eternal, always existing and consisting of energy. All we see did not come from pure nothing ; first cause required.

DAVID: as if we are made to be in an image like Him, we must imagine Him to be limited to human thinking. Doesn't make sense to imagine Him so limited when he creates a universe that is fine-tuned for life and then developed a life form that could be evolved into conscious beings like Himself.

dhw: Why are you talking of “limits”? We are discussing why he would have created the universe and life forms that could be “conscious like Himself”. You have proposed that he wants a relationship, wants us to wonder, wants to prove himself to us. And then you complain because ending the boredom of isolation is “humanizing”.

'Limits' comes from you ascribing Him human feelings like boredom. His thoughts are full of His purposes of creating a life bearing universe and the evolution of its inhabitants. Have you ever created a new play or novel out of boredom? I doubt it.