philosophy of science: meaning and functions (Introduction)

by Balance_Maintained , U.S.A., Friday, September 14, 2018, 12:42 (2262 days ago) @ dhw

TONY: Because the first cause, I believe, was energy. It is reasonable, then, to assume that the first attempts at reproduction would also be in the form of energy, before moving on to converting energy to matter.

DHW Why is that reasonable? The only form of reproduction we know of is material. I thought you believed the first cause was a unique “spiritual” (as opposed to material) entity you call God. Do you imagine him reproducing himself as other gods? See also below on “spiritual beings”.

Because in our observed experience, like begets like.

TONY: Creating, spawning, birthing, whatever you want to call it, but yes, you have his first direct act of creation. The jiggling of Mary has nothing to do with this part, honestly, but if you are ok with the idea of a spiritual soul attached to human flesh, and also ok with God having designed DNA, then why is it unreasonable for him to splice a bit of custom DNA and attach energy to the fertilized zygote?

DHW They are big “ifs”, but for argument’s sake I’ll accept them. How does this explain the “first direct act of creation” as being an immaterial mind giving birth to another immaterial mind? And again, what is the purpose?

Of course they are "big ifs". The purpose is life, growth, development. There reached a point where it could no longer grow in isolation.

TONY: Plants, but I also hold open the potential for other forms of life that we are unaware of as living things, including spirit(energy based) creatures.

DHW; Agreed re plants, but these other forms of life that we are unaware of are a problem for me. In previous posts you have insisted that we should not believe in things that haven’t been observed (a major and justified objection to my hypothesis that intelligent cells may be capable of inventiveness that goes beyond their powers of adaptation), but here you are conjuring up visions of unknown life forms which you appear to regard as possibly even more real than those we know. Again, what is the purpose? This whole discussion began when you insisted that we should look for the purpose of everything, not just of ourselves.

It is a possibility. You have no problem considering that there is a "something" immaterial that interacts with your material body, so why should the consideration of a "something" that doesn't need a material body be such a stretch?

dHW: .. if God exists, the purpose of the universe and of the life he created may have been to provide a spectacle that would relieve his boredom (and which by the way would also increase his “fullness”, through all his new experiences). ..

TONY: It just seems to trivial to me, honestly, for the amount of effort that would have needed to go into creating all the way see.

DHWW The greater the spectacle, the greater the relief and indeed the satisfaction of creating something so fascinating. Besides, why is it more trivial than your God and his spiritual “spawn” aspiring to some nebulous kind of “fullness”?

When I can articulate that clearly, I will.

David: My objection to your spectacle hypothesis is you have draped God in human clothing. You don't think like God does. None of us do.

DHW: How do you know how God thinks? According to you, we have a soul that is part of your God’s own consciousness. Some folk believe he made us “in his image”. And according to you he created us because he wants a relationship with us (how human is that!). You believe in God and you keep insisting that the universe is full of purpose, but how can you possibly consider what that “purpose” is and yet not consider what is in his mind? So please tell us, what do you think is the purpose of the universe and life?

Life and growth ARE part of the purpose. Is that not a worth purpose in and of itself, to live and grow? Still, I have said that I believe there to be many layers of purpose, and I don't claim to know them all.

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What is the purpose of living? How about, 'to reduce needless suffering. It seems to me to be a worthy purpose.