God and evolution (Evolution)

by dhw, Thursday, March 30, 2017, 13:48 (2793 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: You had two proposals: 1) he couldn’t produce humans at first because of his limitations. 2) He has no limitations, you can’t find a clear explanation, and why should you have to explain it? Either/or. And you keep insisting on your either/or, despite having rejected 1) as “totally off reservation”. Are you now withdrawing your hypothesis that God may be limited, or is it still either/or?
DAVID: I am aware of Tony's comment about 'preparation'. He is a strict Biblical constructionist, but it is an important point. God may have used the time for preparation, and not be at all limited, but ‘limited’ still remains possible for me. I am still either/or, but inclined to feel more attracted to Tony’s opinon.

Please explain how ‘limited’ still remains possible for you, while at the same time it is “totally off reservation” because “...any power that can produce a fine-tuned universe can then see to the creation of humans without difficulty.”

Dhw: If an interpretation fits the facts as we know them, I suggest it has a better chance of being true than an interpretation for which you cannot find a clear explanation, as below.
DAVID: My clear explanation is that humans are Gods sole purpose.

God designed the weaverbird’s nest, the monarch’s lifestyle and the fly’s compound eye and every innovation, lifestyle and natural wonder in the history of evolution because his sole purpose was to produce humans? No wonder you said originally that it didn’t make sense even to you. Sorry, but that is the causal link which needs explaining! I’ve offered you three possible theistic explanations of the history: 1 He didn’t design them but gave them the freedom and means to do their own designing (still allowing for dabbling – maybe to produce humans); 2 God’s sole purpose was not to create humans but to create a spectacle of diversity, with humans as a possible latecomer in his thinking; 3 God wanted to create a being like himself, and experimented until he succeeded. Those are hypothetical theistic explanations for the history of evolution as we know it.

DAVID: I agree your suppositions fit the history. But they do not emphasize the goal of humans that God has. My clearest explanation is that God does not see a 'delay' as we do.
dhw: No, my hypotheses (why do you keep calling them suppositions?) do not emphasize what you consider to be God’s purpose, because your interpretation of God’s purpose does not explain why God designed the weaverbird’s nest, the monarch’s lifestyle and the fly’s compound eye before he produced humans. Forget ‘delay’. There is no ‘delay’ if God’s goal was NOT confined to producing humans.
DAVID: Just the opposite! Per Tony, the 'delay' was simply taking time to prepare fro humans who have dominion over all.

An amazingly swift conversion. You began this post by saying “God may have used the time for preparation, and not be at all limited, but ‘limited’ still remains possible for me. I am still either/or, but inclined to feel more attracted to Tony’s opinion.” By the end you are fully committed to hypothesis 2: an unlimited God who inexplicably designed the weaverbird’s nest etc. etc. because he wanted to produce humans (for which your clear explanation is that he wanted to produce humans). See my reply to Tony on the subject of his opinion.