God and evolution (Evolution)

by David Turell @, Tuesday, March 21, 2017, 13:49 (989 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: No definitive answer is possible, which is why we come up with our hypotheses and test their likelihood. .... My question is why he would have done so if all he wanted to do was to produce humans. You have come up with two hypotheses:

1) he had no choice because his powers were limited and he had to keep life going until he was able to dabble with the pre-human brain or until his 3.8-billion-year brain enlargement programme switched itself on (= “buying time”).
2) His powers were not limited, in which case he chose to delay doing what he really wanted to do, but you don’t know why, and you have agreed that it doesn’t make sense to you.

# 2 is a misinterpretation in that what makes 'no sense to me' simply means that I don't have a clear explanation or differentiation of the events. Either God is limited or He chose the possible delay in time. It is a simple either or, not something that lacks sense.

dhw: I have offered you these theistic alternatives:
1) He wanted to create humans (i.e. beings with a consciousness like his own), but didn’t know how to do it so kept experimenting.
2) He wanted and created diversity, and the idea for humans only came later.
3) He deliberately created an autonomous inventive mechanism enabling organisms to do their own designing, but he may also have dabbled.

You have agreed that all of these hypotheses fit in with life’s history, >
Do you agree that, unlike your second hypothesis, these three make perfect sense? And do you agree that they are just as likely as your hypothesis that your God personally dabbled or 3.8 billion years ago preprogrammed every innovation, lifestyle and natural wonder for the sake of producing humans? If not, what is your objection?

#1 is totally off the reservation. Any power that can produce a fine-tuned universe can then see to the creation of humans without difficulty.

#2 Why bother with a fine-tuned universe if humans are not expected in the planning?

#3 Using current knowledge, the only AIM we see is the adaptive mechanism of epigenetics. God is in control of speciation. I see no other possibility. Please don't forget I am a panentheist. Note this website and a definition of pantheism:


"Was Einstein himself religious? Raised by secular Jewish parents, he had complex and evolving spiritual thoughts. He generally seemed to be open to the possibility of the scientific impulse and religious thoughts coexisting.

"'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind," said Einstein in his 1954 essay on science and religion.

"Some (including the scientist himself) have called Einstein’s spiritual views as pantheism, largely influenced by the philosophy of Baruch Spinoza. Pantheists see God as existing but abstract, equating all of reality with divinity. They also reject a specific personal God or a god that is somehow endowed with human attributes." (my bold)

That is the nub of our difference: God does not have human attributes.

By the way most of this answer was deleted by Neil yesterday. I forgive him, as he has given us a very good functional site within which to debate.

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