Arguments against Design (General)

by BBella , Monday, August 03, 2009, 20:11 (5403 days ago) @ dhw

BBella: My theory is that all that IS is the creator itself...one ever evolving, living being that not only creates but experiences everything that IS. &#13;&#10;> &#13;&#10;>...if you say that God is the universe and everything in it, the question of consciousness becomes paramount. I don&apos;t know of any concept of a creator god that does not involve consciousness. So just what is conscious of what? - I akin consciousness to awareness. Self awareness as well as awareness of the surroundings. If there is a UI then I figure it is aware of itself.&#13;&#10; &#13;&#10;>The fact is that unless science has got things totally wrong, our world had a beginning, and life in our world also had a beginning. And so, at some point in the continuous history of the universe, there was on Earth a new thing we can call a self-replicating molecule. The question is: how did the self-replicating model come to replicate itself? - I would think self-replication was not a new thing when self-replicating molecules appeared on earth. If there is a UI, then what science calls self-replication is UI in the process of morphing/shapeshifting/self-replicating, etc..whatever UI is about doing at the time while being watched. It seems to me holography seems to be a closer model for how that happens. If there is a UI, it is the fabric of which everything is made of. So even tho something seems to self-replicate before our eyes, in reality it would just be morphing/shapeshifting the fabric into what it is becoming. &#13;&#10; &#13;&#10;> &#13;&#10;> In your Universe as Tragedy post, &quot;playing along with the what if&apos;s&quot;, you write: &quot;Who is to say that a creator cannot grow in variety of shapes and sizes, having the ability to shapeshift yet also having a &apos;center&apos; within all that IS that &apos;knows&apos; it/himself.&quot; It&apos;s this &apos;center&apos; that is the source of all the controversy. If the universe is a gigantic, evolving body, do you then see this evolution (e.g. the self-replicating molecule) as something that happens of its own accord, as something controlled by a conscious mind, or as something that happens independently of a conscious mind which experiences but does not control what is happening? - If there is a UI, then we have to consider it&apos;s makeup, what it is made up of...it&apos;s elements. Nothing can happen that isn&apos;t already a part of that makeup...there are only so many elements in which to work. Even if we/it creates new elements, these new elements are still made up of what already was here. Even if the UI may be gaining in intelligence, growing in emotional understanding of self, etc...still it is what it is. It/We can only work within the framework of the fabric that IS (as self-replicating molecules) we still only have so much freedom. It&apos;s like placing a baby in a play pen with a bottle and toys...it only has so many choices (<---not a great analogy, but you get the point). - In the end tho, I believe if there is a UI, then it is intelligent and is about it&apos;s own business ultimately for it&apos;s own good.