An inventive mechanism (Evolution)

by David Turell , Thursday, October 02, 2014, 02:32 (3704 days ago) @ dhw


> dhw: I already answered this: "The “intelligent information” your God may have provided in the first place is everything that goes to make up the cell, including its ‘inventive mechanism' or ‘brain'". What other “pre-existing information” are you thinking of? -Going to the heart of the information issue: DNA is a complex code, according to Gates (Windows), himself, much more complex than anything invented by humans. That code contains information, according to estimates which would fill 600 large-sized books. DNA was present in early life, if not at the very beginning. The DNA in amoebas is larger than ours! You don't think chance could have created it, and neither do I. Where did the information come from? You have never given me an answer. It is the background of that coded information that leads somehow to new species. Is speciation done by absorbing new information from the environment and collating it with existing information, and guided somehow into new species. I'm stuck with no answer. We have no evidence as to how this all works. You glibly grant my God at work. Don't put it on my ideas about God. I want you to tell me how you think it all happened to start life with DNA functioning. And then go on to arrange for new species to develop, and leave out chance.-> 
> dhw: That's why we have so many different “species of species”, once the prototype has established itself. The “intelligent genome” invents, and then goes on modifying the invention. Of course there are no itty-bitty steps. Each change has to work or it won't survive.-I agree. That is why there are huge gaps in the fossil record. Each speciation event must obviously be an excellent plan if the species is developed, produced and prospers. That is clearly why cooperating cells are required, but you haven't offered me any sense of how the planning is developed, other than cells cooperate. There has to be basic information to start with. Without chance what other mechanism would you employ other than cooperating sentient cells. And what 'sentient cells' means in biology is simply that they respond to stimuli, no more. 
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> dhw: My hypothesis does not avoid design. It proposes that evolutionary innovation is designed by an inventive mechanism in the genome, and it allows for that mechanism to have been designed by your God.......
 Once again: an innovation must function straight away if it is to survive. But I'm not denying that my hypothesis requires astonishing feats of engineering by the cell communities that create the innovations (much as the first ant communities performed amazing feats when they built the first ant cities). However, the engineering did happen, and it can only have happened because cells cooperated to make it happen.- You have't explained what you mean by 'design'. Is it what I believe, or how did design appear in the first place in DNA coding. DNA forces the cells to cooperate. And speciation does require 'astonishing feats of engineering'. So partially from incredulity, I am convinced there is a God who did this, and you call Him my God. I just don't know how He did it, and in my view your approach dodges the issue by your trying to give cells stupendous powers and at this point we have not shown in research that they have such enormous capabilities. Dawkins says life appears designed, but is not. I say it is designed. Your position, please!