An inventive mechanism (Evolution)

by David Turell , Monday, September 29, 2014, 00:34 (3707 days ago) @ dhw


> dhw: That is exactly the way I interpret it. The genome runs the cell as the brain runs the body.-Well, at least we generally agree here. There are many parts of the body and of a cell that run on autopilot, with the brain or the genome simply keeping out an eye for problems. -> 
> dhw: if you are now saying that the “brain” in the genome is a computer that is not capable of autonomous invention, then you are back again with your divine 3.7-billion-year programme to cover every single innovation and wonder in the history of life, ..... a hypothesis which, very understandably, you say bothers you.-Yes it bothers me. But we have agreed that the genome may well contain an inventive mechanism which can take the organism beyond mere adaptation and create a new species.-What you have not accepted is a cause for the presence of intelligent information in the genome. It will need lots of intelligent information to change an organism into an entirely new species. Invention requires thought an planning to intergrate all the new parts so they work together. Again, the whale series is a great example.
 
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> dhw: [cells] Highly controlled by the genome is fine with me. Instructions IN the genome yet again = your 3.7-billion-year-old computer programme as above. Instructions WORKED OUT AND GIVEN BY the genome makes the genome the author of the instructions. Which of these seems to you more likely? Do please answer.-I think the genome has previously received guidelines and instructions to accomplish speciation. As I noted above, living architecture is quite complex and requires planning and coodination of the new parts. I suspect there is some byplay between environment and genome responsiveness.
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> dhw: The theistic version would be that your God gave the driver the autonomous ability to choose his route and steer the car. But I find the hypothesis itself far clearer than this analogy.-Only because your position has to avoid a universal consciousness. If you don't accept chance where did the genome get its intelligent information in the first place? 
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> DAVID: Without exception, the genome is in charge of cell function. The genome itself within established species is also mostly very automatic.
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> dhw:Of course it is. ....... Innovations would occur when the genome is NOT automatic, i.e. when it is confronted with new conditions which demand or allow new organs, functions, and/or modes of behaviour.-Agreed, but new architecture requires an architectural plan that coordinate the new parts. Darwinian itty-bitty advances aren't apparent. And, I repe, we have discarded chance. What is left? For you, your nebulous concept is that cells can conjure up a new species, by influencing their genomes.
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> DAVID: The closest you and I have gotten together is the possibility of an inventive mechanism in the genome which might possibly account for speciation. 
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> dhw: And that is all I have ever asked of you: to accept the possibility. Only “inventive” does not mean obeying instructions. It means creating new things and performing new actions without being preprogrammed.-NO WAY! It invents with knowledge of instructions and consideration of coordination of parts. Did your architect design your house (which I have seen) to make it work the way you wanted it to, or is it a hodgepodge? Species work because they have to work. They have to be designed to work or their attempt at life doesn't work. Natural selection's job is to discard, something the Darwinists have forgotten. Your house worked for you and I found it pleasently designed. Your architect didn't work at random. It seems he knew what he was doing. For me there is no way to avoid design.