Cell Memories (Identity)

by dhw, Thursday, October 24, 2013, 20:45 (4047 days ago) @ dhw

I'm taking this discussion back to Cell Memories, to keep the two discussions separate.-DAVID: I agree about NDE's and these transplant memories may have some validity if you consider species consciousness as a factor.-dhw: I don't understand your insistence that individual memories are dependent on species consciousness. Validation of transplant memories, as with NDEs, can only come about through confirmation of the information by independent third parties. This appears to have happened in certain cases of NDEs and heart transplants. -DAVID: I can accept completely the fact of veridical NDE's. Hundreds have been reported. [...]-(Thank you for the latest fascinating example.)-DAVID: On the other hand these transplant memory stories are suggestive and require more documentation to reach the level we are at in NDE research.-Agreed. NDEs go way back into history, whereas transplants are a comparatively new phenomenon and these stories are only just beginning to come out. No doubt more research will be done on them. We must also keep in mind that the vast majority of patients in both types of case appear to have had no such experience (which should make us wary of generalizations).
 
DAVID: Both are highly suggestive of species consciousness, especially with the so-called NDE experts considering the brain as a radio receiver for consciousness. Parnia is very clear that consciousness can survive several hours of no brain function in isolated cases. Eben Alexander, the academic neurosurgeon's length of time was one week.-Like you, I'm fascinated by the implications of NDEs and the apparent independence of consciousness from the cells from which we think it may emerge. You have a problem here, since you seem convinced by "emergence" (which makes the cells the source of consciousness) and yet believe consciousness can survive the cells that create it. 
 
Transplant memories, however, suggest that the consciousness of the dead person remains within the cells (and not just those of the brain). If both sets of examples are true (we can only speculate), the answer may perhaps lie in some form of personalized energy that is produced by the cells but can remain both inside and outside them. Species consciousness might be a generalized form of that energy (so perhaps the brain/heart/whatever could be both producer and receiver), or it might be cellular memories handed down through all the generations of species' cells (which makes the brain/heart/whatever a container and a producer). Whatever it may be, though I hate to mention this, we are getting perilously close to some kind of panpsychism.