Cell Memories (Identity)

by David Turell , Saturday, October 12, 2013, 15:54 (4059 days ago) @ dhw


> dhw: But you also believe that consciousness is a product of biochemical processes, and that is why I'm struggling to reconcile your different beliefs. If the brain is the receiver (which you regard as a reasonable hypothesis) and not the producer of consciousness, how can consciousness be the product of biochemical processes? If the brain is the producer, as you believe at the moment, how can consciousness survive the death of the brain?-The biochemical processes are in the individual neurons that produce ionized signals that transfer signals back and forth. The entire network of over 100 billion neurons with trillions of connections result in the emergence of consciousness either as a hologram or through quantum connections at that level. This is why I view the receiver concept as viable-> 
> dhw: Let me get this straight: God pervades everything, which means he pervades our cells, and so although according to you our consciousness (which with all its manifestations constitutes most of our identity) is produced by biochemistry, what is produced is an entity that can live independently of our biochemistry because...because...biochemistry has produced...what? A new piece of the universal consciousness which was already inside the producer? Do you not find this confusing?-We are part of God's consciousness. I'm not confused. I have a consistent theory for me. Since you refuse to accept any belief system you are sitting on the outside of understanding wondering how to get in. If you won't accept anything in a step beyond what we fully understand, of course you remain in puzzlement. How the biochemistry acts to allow consciousness is explained above, not that we understand how it emerges.
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> BBELLA: This is getting near to how I view the intelligent cell. As you say above, David, "with universal consciousness pervading everything", it is understandable that the will of the ALL is carried out within and without all things, albeit the Quantum level. As for cell memory, it also makes sense to me that if certain cells never die because they were transplanted from one person to another that the first persons cells would holographically carry the memories of that person...
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> dhw: You and David like the idea of a "universal consciousness pervading everything", but David objects vehemently to the concept of panpsychism, which also promotes the idea of some form of consciousness pervading everything. What is anathema to David ... but perhaps not to you ... is the suggestion that this consciousness is not one supreme being who has planned and designed the universe and everything in it. The "intelligent" cell concept can be linked atheistically (it can also be theistic, though) with the idea of there being different forms and levels of intelligence, which can evolve into new forms as they combine and cooperate. Life, like the universe itself, would therefore be the product of an evolutionary process guided from within materials by intelligences of ever increasing complexity. Intelligence itself would be a form of energy (not the same as energy being intelligence), and the holograph would be the individualized intelligent energy of the person concerned. This might even be capable of surviving the death of the body's materials. In short, "universal consciousness" would not be one being, but the separate energies of all things and all beings.Pretty way out, perhaps, but no more so than chance creating the universe and life, or than a readymade superintelligence that came from nowhere.-I left all of the above here. The one agreement I have is it 'is way out'. You want a bottom up solution to the discussion of how evolution happens and I prefer a top down. Only a top down can provide intelligent plans for evolution to follow. Bottom up is a bastardized version of Darwin's musings and brings in cells dancing around trying this and that, trial and error, which is pure Darwin. I know you were raised on "Origin" but you really must believe you have abandoned it, because your stated position has. Chance flew out the window a while ago.