Cell Memories (Identity)

by dhw, Tuesday, October 15, 2013, 16:05 (4056 days ago) @ dhw

The posts below are under "Buddhism and Karma", but I think they are better suited to the discussion on cells.-Matt: The argument from social biologists is that the ant colony itself is the organism, and that the individual ants equivalent to cells in the human body. In that sense, David kind of undermines himself: If we can agree that the ant colony represents a single organism, but that organism displays intelligence in terms of being able to solve problems... but the individual ants themselves are simple automatons... then he's undermining the argument that chemical transactions in the brain are insufficient to produce intelligence.-DAVID: I don't follow your reasoning. Of course chemical reactions in the brain can produce intelligence, far more than computers ever can if you believe Penrose's comments. The issue is that intelligence is part of consciousness, and we don't know how that emerges from the complex of billions of neurons and trillions of synapses. The ants are automatons but acting together the colony acts as if it has intelligence, when really it is following instintual intelligent information in the genomes of the individuals. We can argue how that information was developed.-Matt's argument, as I understand it, is simply that if ants are automatons, and automatons cannot produce real intelligence (they only act "as if" they had it), then automatons cannot produce real intelligence in humans. According to you, David, all cells are automatons, which means that human brain cells with their connections have no intelligence of their own. But you say that when (like ants) they cooperate through chemical transactions, they produce REAL intelligence/consciousness. If chemical transactions are insufficient to produce real intelligence in ants (because chemical transactions between automatons do not produce real intelligence/consciousness), then chemical transactions between the automaton cells in the human brain cannot produce real intelligence/consciousness either. But according to you, they do! Therefore, either automatons CAN produce real intelligence, or cells (and ants) are not automatons. I find Matt's reasoning totally logical.