Other Forms of Life (Evolution)

by David Turell , Friday, December 19, 2008, 14:14 (5614 days ago) @ dhw

No-one could seriously doubt that the mind has a huge influence on the body (and vice versa), or that placebos often work for that very reason. However, my father's frozen shoulder, which nowadays you say would be treated under anaesthetic, with the shoulder being forcibly stretched and the scar tissue being broken up, was first relieved and then cured, according to my father, by a simple placing-on of hands. In any case, the removal of warts by hypnosis is scarcely comparable. I must again stress that my father ... who was a very stubborn man ... was totally sceptical, which is not the sort of mindset conducive to autosuggestion. There can be no doubt that the healer himself, whom I met a couple of times, believed that his power came from God, and the point that remains most vividly in my memory is his response to my father's scepticism: namely, that it was he the healer who had to have faith, and not the patient. 
 
I left your whole quote so I could dissect it from my viewpoint. The mind does have a huge influence, which is my point. A person lifts a car off an injured pedestrian high enough to pull him out. Yes, adrenalin underlies, but the mind drives it. My point about the warts is the amazing power of suggestion. I'm like your father, and doubt I can be hypnotized, but I have identified some placebo effects in myself. If it is the healer who must have the faith in God and you saw your father's miraculous result, why don't you believe in God? You have seen His power. I believe in a greater power, but do not believe that the greater power stepped in to help your father recover. Some form of suggestion helped your father to help himself. - > I'm fascinated by your equation of the "immaterial world" with the quantum layer. In OBEs and NDEs, the dead person not only retains his identity, but is also able to see and hear what is going on in the room and even elsewhere, as well as encounter other dead people. I can't see much difference between calling this perceiving identity "virtual energy" or an "energy constellation" and calling it the "soul" or the "spirit". If you believe that this constellation does survive death, then can I presume that you also believe in ghosts and in spiritualism? I'm sorry if I seem to be pushing you on this, but for me it's all part of the same complex, and I'd like to know where you draw the line (and why). - I don't know about believing ghosts, spiritualism, or seances, but I awoke one night and saw the 'spectral' outline of my wife dancing slowly with another woman I did not recognize shining red from the light thrown by our clock. I sat up in bed, made sure I was not sleeping, and in a short while they faded away. My wife was lying next to me sleeping quietly. As factual and scientific as I try to be, I know I saw this. My wife has documented ESP and precognition. Lets just say I am skeptical in this area. But quanta are what made the outline of my wife. Photons are quanta we see. Other quanta may become material in our reality and then disappear again. That is the other layer I am talking about. So if there are ghosts, they pop in and out of the other layer.