Other Forms of Life (Evolution)

by dhw, Wednesday, December 17, 2008, 13:40 (5616 days ago) @ David Turell

I wrote that UFOs, ghosts, ESP, near-death and out-of-body experiences, spiritualism, healing powers etc. "may all be part of nature; they may be delusions; they may be part of an immaterial universe beyond the scope of science." - David says, "This quote also has its problems and correct statements." - You go through the list, expressing scepticism about UFOs, certainty about ESP, conviction about NDEs and OBEs, and scepticism about healing powers, while you miss out on ghosts and spiritualism (perhaps not unconnected with NDEs and OBEs). In my post, I went on to say: "...until we have proof that is positive (or negative) enough to convince us as individuals, we should keep an open mind. That proof may come through experience (our own or other people's), or through science." I would suggest that both your beliefs and your scepticism fit in with what I was trying to express. Your beliefs are conditioned by your experience, your scepticism perhaps by lack of it ... "perhaps" because, of course, I'm in no position to say whether you are right or wrong. I've never encountered a UFO either. - 
However, I have had experiences which prevent me from completely sharing your scepticism in one area. As a doctor you are convinced that healing powers are a "misconception", so I will tell you of an experience that is not in the Brief Guide. My father suffered from 'frozen shoulder', and the doctors could not help him. Totally against his will, and in desperation,he allowed himself to be persuaded by my mother to see a faith healer who had been recommended. My father told the man right at the start that he did not believe in such things, but the gist of the healer's reply was that he and not my father was the one who had to have faith. When my parents returned to the car, my mother pointed out that my father had just raised his arm and had not cried out in pain. It took a few more sessions before he was able to regain full use of his arm, but he did so, and never had any more problems till the day he died. My account is from first hand knowledge. Of course doctors use the placebo effect, and of course it works, but this was no placebo. My father would have agreed initially with your diagnosis of healing powers as a "misconception", but he certainly would not have done so after this experience. I don't wish to draw definitive conclusions from this episode, but I would still suggest that belief or scepticism in relation to all these phenomena will depend on science or on experience, though the two might not necessarily seem compatible. - Finally, I'm intrigued by what you say about OBEs and NDEs, together with your statement that "the immaterial world is "material"'. If perception, identity and thought can survive independently of the brain (which is clinically dead), what is their material basis?