Tony\'s God (Introduction)

by Balance_Maintained , U.S.A., Friday, November 25, 2011, 03:15 (4748 days ago) @ Balance_Maintained

As normal, I realized rather belatedly(as is usual for me) that the tone of my message was not what I intended. I apologize. Please let me try and clarify.

By starting the thread off with the title "Tony's God", I kind of felt forced into the role of defending the bible, even though the thread was started because I used the bible as a counter to Abel's thread for the singular reason that he was using an argument that was built predominantly around Judeo-Christianic Archetypes. I found the situation frustrating because it represents a fundamental rift between something that I am to argue, and my actual belief structure, which, as outlined in response to Bella, has little basis on the bible.

Yes, I DO believe that the Bible has tremendous validity and deeper levels of truth than many ever realize. However, just so there is no misunderstanding, I do not claim, nor have I ever, that every single word must be interpreted literally, nor do I claim any special insight as to what is or is not to be interpreted as literal. That is a question for archaeologist.(However, it should be pointed out that in your introduction to this thread you implied that the stories should be taken literally, so I treated them as such.)

I also believe that much of it is couched in allegory meant to inspire contemplation on deeper subjects, allowing the reader to arrive at fundamental truths by way of reflection and meditation. Arriving at a truth in this manner is far more potent, and the effects much longer lasting, than having someone 'preach it to you from the pulpit'. Not only that, but the brain in its mysterious way seems to niggle at you whenever you are misunderstanding something, processing information in the background, inspiring odd questions until you arrive at an answer that it accepts wholly and fully, at which point it moves you off into another direction, normally along some associated topic. To beg your humor for a moment, let's call this trait 'the knowledge of good and evil', or, as I postulated in my previous discussion, 'the knowledge of correct and mistaken.'

Have you ever wondered WHY we are so drawn to question something that we have heard answered a million times? Why is that when we here an answer to a question, we KNOW whether it is right or wrong, even if we can not put our finger on WHY? Why is it that men pursued science when the world thought that we 'had discovered everything there is to discover'? Why is it that we push the boundaries of science, math, space, philosophy, religion, and truth even when we have what could be considered satisfactory answers?

The second line of questioning I would put to you is, why do we love? Contrary to popular thought, I see no evolutionary advantage in love. There is no advantage in giving a sick person help. From an evolutionary standpoint, the person is weak, flawed, a hindrance to the species and should be culled from the herd and the gene pool. Children old enough to care for themselves offer little selective advantage to the parents. Marriage beyond the point of having reproduced and seen the children safely out of the nest confers little evolutionary advantage. So, why do we love? What is there about love that is so fundamental that we see its echoes in all of creation? Even in creatures that supposedly have no introspection like mother lion caring for her cubs, or mourning their death.

You maintain hope for mankind and can not understand why I have so little. I have seen man's goodness. I've picked bloody chunks of mankind's 'loving kindness and goodness' off the streets of Mosul with my own hands. I've seen the half-crushed rotting stench of mankind's greatness in Tikrit with my own eyes. I've smelled the remains of mankind's diplomatic endeavors with my own breath. Every day we read stories of mankind's overwhelming good nature and generosity as they murder, steal, manipulate, lie, cheat, embezzle, poison, and attempt to enslave each other under the oh-so-loving guise of 'building a brighter future.' This is the nature of the creature that you praise so highly, DHW, and unlike the arguments we had of God, mankind is incapable of giving back what they have taken or destroyed. A is not equal to B. Man did these things, not God. And perhaps you think that my personal experiences have clouded my judgement, but I think they have given me perspective.

I grew in the country, listening to the beautiful music of nature. Smelling honeysuckles in the morning on my way to school. Catching tadpoles in the fowl pond only to watch them morph into frogs. Playing with baby alligators because their skin felt neat. Watching livestock give birth. Watching the newborns struggle to stand and the loving tenderness displayed by even the dumbest cow on the planet. I watched a good man sitting in a non-denominational church service get shot in the back with an RPG and walk away without so much as a scratch. Saw another get shot point blank in the face with a 9mm and walk away with only a missing tooth. I should have died at least a dozen times, probably more, and every time it was only by some odd little unusual coincidence that I just happened to be somewhere that I normally am not that saved my life.

Sorry my friend. You can put your faith in men. I know where my faith belongs.

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What is the purpose of living? How about, 'to reduce needless suffering. It seems to me to be a worthy purpose.