Tony\'s God (Introduction)

by Balance_Maintained , U.S.A., Sunday, November 20, 2011, 22:45 (4752 days ago) @ dhw

DHW
It’s the same story with Pharaoh: God sends his plagues, the last of which entails killing the firstborn of every Egyptian (as with the flood, indiscriminate slaughter). How this protected the Israelites from the famine I don’t know. God’s motive? How about: “That ye may know how that I am the Lord.” (Exodus, 10 ii), or “...the Lord said unto Moses, ‘Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you; that my wonders may be multiplied in the land of Egypt.’ (Exodus, 11 ix). An exhibition of raw power at the expense of helpless kids.

Ah, the kid arguments. I love these because people get so wrapped up emotionally in them. So let's stop for a moment, and try to unwrap the emotional baggage long enough to take a long view of the situation.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him

Acts 24:15 ..there shall certainly be a ressurection of the righteous and the unrighteous.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Now, in your view, what he did was evil. Lets consider it from the biblical perspective, though. God is the giver of life; since original sin, life has become increasingly harder and more of a struggle; the dead are concious of nothing, neither time nor place nor action; there will be a resurrection into a new world of both the righteous and the unrighteous where they will have a chance to learn Gods ways on their own and then make an informed choice over which master they will serve.

While this certainly sounds like a harsh thing to say, what God did could be seen as sparing them the problems of this life, and fast tracking them on the road to a better life. Now, all of this assumes that the biblical account is true and accurate.(Including your own arguments against God)

DHW
I need a lot more than assurances from a believer that the story-tellers are all telling the truth.

And who can blame you? At 15, I need a lot more assurance, which is why I left religion behind and went my own way. In the last 15 years I have seen enough to make a believer out of me. Now, all I am trying to do is refine my knowledge and my faith. I do not think that the bible as it has been handed down to us is infallible. That is why I study other religions, other cultures, seeking the truth. I may not ever find it, I may not know it if I do find it. But I will continue looking. :)

DHW
His knowledge doesn’t extend to the strength of Abraham’s faith, which has to be tested first.

He knew Abraham had faith, he needed to know whether, when confronted with a choice, Abraham would follow that faith with action. Humans do have free will, we have the right and the ability to choose.

As for your closing arguments:

If the answer for why God created everything was simply "Because he could, and he wanted to." or "Because he was bored, and he wanted to.", or even if it was "Because I am alone, and lonely.", would that denigrate his work, his accomplishments, and his feelings towards what he has done? You might buy a dog if you are alone and lonely. You might even build it its own dog house for outside and a warm bed for inside. You might even give it a bowl for food and water and a little doggy flap so that it can go inside and out at will. Do ANY of these things mean that you do not love your dog? Does the fact that you orignally got the dog because you were bored or lonely mean that you love your dog less now than if it were for some altruistic reason? Of course not. The bottom line is, who cares WHY he started creation. What matters is that after he decided to start, he showed great care and consideration for absolutely every aspect of it. We would call this love. 1 John 4:8 "Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love." What better reason is there than that?

As for all the Higgly-Piggly, put yourself in the shoes of a cave man trying to learn electronics. It would all seem like "Higgly-Piggly" to you because you would lack the pre-requisite knowledge, wisdom, and the proper frame of reference in order to make sense of it all. If we are cavemen, then life, nature, and the universe is your electronics. We do not have the pre-requisite knowledge, wisdom, or frame of reference to say what was and wasn't necessary or logical, or sensical.

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What is the purpose of living? How about, 'to reduce needless suffering. It seems to me to be a worthy purpose.